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LM netters, the networking of cdroms seems to be a sustainable topic on this list. What follows is the summary posting I made to CDROMLAN list about using Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 on a school VAX distributed network. This message will be of interest only to those who work with VAXes, but for those folks it might be a useful resource. The contents are self explanatory. Bill BHanson@cbe.ab.ca ----------------------- From: CBE::BHANSON "WILLIAM R. HANSON, WILLIAM ABERHART HIGH SCHOOL" 5-O CT -1993 20:22:54.24 To: IN%"cdromlan@idbsu.bitnet",IN%"werner@mfc.panum.ku.dk",FKARAS,ASTEINMAN, ABE: :DINMAN,ABE::DMCMAHON CC: BHANSON Subj: DEC Infoserver 1000 query summary of 7 responses. thanks...bill On September 29, I posted a blind message to CDROMLAN requesting information about DEC's Infoserver 1000. I received 7 replies, which are summarized here. Thanks to all seven respondents for your contributions. This product seems to get rave reviews from several continents. It's the price that seems a problem here in Canada. One interesting aside. It would appear that some vendors are beginning to monitor some of the product oriented listservers. A couple of days after my posting, I got a telephone call from a vendor in California who had a competing product, based on the Meridian Tower. We had a nice chat, and he was quite helpful, and we concluded that it wasn't likely we would be doing business together, because of the problems associated with cross border trade. I salute his observatory diligence! He is probably reading this, just like you are. Thanks CDROMLAN, for your help... Bill BHanson@CBE.AB.CA ----------------------------cut here-------------------------- My original posting... From: CBE::BHANSON "WILLIAM R. HANSON, WILLIAM ABERHART HIGH SCHOOL" 29-S EP -1993 21:19:48.97 To: IN%"cdromlan@idbsu.bitnet" CC: BHANSON Subj: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 I am not currently a subscriber to CDROMLAN (although I was a couple of years ago), but I am sending this blind query in hopes of getting some insight. Please respond to BHanson@CBE.AB.CA, not the list. If I get significant response, I will repost it to the list. We are going to be looking at DEC's Infoserver 1000 CDROM server to be mounted on our VAX 4200 distributed building level WAN. The vendor's bumpf makes some remarkable claims. Modular addition of simultaneous users in 50 user increments, up to 7 CDROM's available for simultaneous use, substitution of hard drives or tapes for CDROMs, makes fresh coffee and pizza on demand, are some of the claims. Have any of you good folks had experience with this product? Got any good questions to ask the vendor? They indicate that this package is only $18,000 cdn +GST. There is a subtle internal pressure to lean towards the product as our school is partnered with the marketing arm of Digital Canada. Please respond to me directly, as I am not a CDROMLAN subscriber. Thanks for your help Bill Hanson William Aberhart High School Calgary, Alberta BHanson@CBE.AB.CA -----------------------------cut here------------------------- The replies... From: IN%"hartb@beryl.ucq.edu.au" 29-SEP-1993 22:23:49.23 To: IN%"bhanson@CBE.AB.CA" CC: Subj: Infoserver Librarian Hi Bill, We have ordered 1 Infoserver 1000 Librarian not due for about another month. It was favoured primarily because it has Ultrix client software which enables the IS drives to be mounted via our Ultrix file server. This enables our remote campuses access to the CDs via the file server. No CDnet solution allows TCP/IP access direct. If all works well we will buy some more next year. We will be looking to buy future IS 1000s with no drives and mount some 3rd party fast drives but we will have to test first. I am surprised at your figure of $18k. Ours cost $12.5k Aus. with 7 drives, 100 licence, Dos, Mac and Ultrix client software. Aus $ is worth 65c US. I may be of more help when ours turns up Regards, Bruce Hart Library University of Central Queensland Rockhampton Australia B.HART@.UCQ.EDU.AU From: IN%"NELSON@mc.maricopa.edu" "Carl Nelson, Computer Operator I" 30-SEP-1 99 3 17:08:38.61 To: IN%"BHanson@CBE.AB.CA" CC: Subj: RE: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 Bill: We have been using the Infoserver line for serving CD-ROM's and disk partitions to PC's since slightly before the capability was a Digital product. We have three Infoservers now. Our first system was a model 100 with eight CD-ROM drives and the internal 250 MB disk, the second was a model 150 with another eight drives and 250 MB disk, and the third was a 1000 with two CD-ROM drives and a 1.6 GB disk drive. We have been quite happy with these systems. They are rock-steady reliable, fast, and quite as versatile as DEC claims them to be. The first two systems we used to serve CD-ROM's to nine (now eleven) PC's in our Library. The search engine software disk and spill disks are actually partitions served by the Infoservers to the diskless workstations in the library. These systems do NOT crash, period. The only time that they have any down time at all is when we have a power outage, rearrange the room, or upgrade the system software. We have used these systems to serve a special training session for the U.S. Census Bureau with 38 workstations using 4 CD-ROM products simultaniously. There was no appreciable slowdown from 1 user to the full 38 users. The third Infoserver (the model 1000) we purchased recently to serve a lab building which has 330 computers of various flavors, 92 of which are networked. Currently only 20 of the workstations use the Infoserver, mainly to run Microsoft Windows v3.1 and a couple of minor applications, however we expect to be adding 30 systems to that by the end of the semester. By the beginning of the fall 94 semester I expect to have 150 systems using the Infoserver for application and system software. We will be serving both Pathworks and Netware systems by the end of this semester. I can heartily recommend the Infoserver system as a solid system. Our use has gained us many inquiries and tours of the facilities that make use of the Infoserver's capabilities. While much of what was of interest was in HOW we were using the Infoserver, we would not been able to perform half the magic that we did without such a stable base to build upon. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions at all. Carl. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Q. Nelson System DemiGod (O.K. -- Computer Operator II) Mesa Community College 1833 W. Southern Ave. Mesa, Azirona 85202 Phone: (602) 461-7490 Fax: (602) 461-7806 Beeper: (602) 271-6589 Bitnet: NELSON@MC Internet: NELSON@MC.MARICOPA.EDU ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IN%"hrood@tenet.edu" "Harriet A. Rood" 30-SEP-1993 17:48:13.32 To: IN%"BHANSON@CBE.AB.CA" "WILLIAM R. HANSON, WILLIAM ABERHART HIGH SCHOOL " CC: Subj: RE: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT MIME-version: 1.0 William, We just installed a DECnet with a VAX 4000 and an Inforserver. At present we only have four drives three of which are in use (we are waiting for delivery of the 4th cd). We have 35 pc's and 25 MACs on our system. At present all but two of the PC's have the cd's running (we just don't use them on the other two). We have not had all 33 accessing the CD/ROMs at the same time yet, but have experienced no slow downs yet. Our MAS, which we had on a stand alone 386 last year and which ran like a turtle, is flying now. Our network manager, who is learning as he goes, loaded the search software for the cdroms on each pc which he says is the reason it is speeding up. I don't know if any of my ramblings helped....hope so. ******************************************************* * Harriet Rood * * Head Librarian (210) 423-6006 ext 530 * * Marine Military Academy FAX (210) 423-7716 * * 320 Iwo Jima Blvd. hrood@tenet.edu * * Harlingen, TX 78550 * ******************************************************* A college prep school..Education, Structure, Leadership & Discipline " Semper Fi" From: IN%"britten@utklib.lib.utk.edu" 1-OCT-1993 14:23:33.88 To: IN%"bhanson@CBE.AB.CA" CC: IN%"britten@utklib.lib.utk.edu" Subj: RE: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 Bill - We have 4 Infoserver 150's and 2 1000's, with a total of 60+ cd drives being served campus-wide. They are fabulous products .... ours have been serving cd's for 1.5 years with not one minute downtime, great response time even with 10 users on a single cd. Not necessary to connect it to a vax, especially if you are using dos-based products. No need for a network os either. We just plug into the campus ethernet, load the Infoserver dos client on the pc (must have an ethernet card, of course), and the pc can talk to the Infoserver. There is also a Mac client that we have tried, but most of our cd's our dos-based. The 150's come with a 120mb hard drive that can be partitioned for DOS, Mac, and VMS. The single hard drive can have be partitioned for all three platforms, and can serve all three simultaneously. I load all the search software on the hard drive, and a menu program, so folks from all over campus access menu, software, and cdrom disc over the network. The 1000's do not normally come with hard drive, so if you want a file server option, buy at least one 150 with a hard drive. We also have a 4GB DAT tape unit on the Infoserver, which we use to back up our vax. Soon the dos client will have hooks for Norton backup, so we could do network-wide backup of pc's. One favorite feature of mine is the RAM cache. The 1000 comes with 4mb, or you can increase to 32mb. Stats show that the Infoserver satisfies 70% of requests to the cd's from the RAM. That's how they keep response time up with simultaneous users .... the RAM cache is doing it. Because of the cache, response time over the net is actually faster than a cddrive attached directly to the pc! glad to provide more info ... Bill Britten U of Tennesee Libraries From: IN%"george@rankin.lib.umt.edu" "george@rankin.lib.umt.edu" 2-OCT-1993 20 :57:20.06 To: IN%"BHANSON@CBE.AB.CA" CC: IN%"george@rankin.lib.umt.edu" Subj: RE: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 Hi William, Sorry to be replying so late, but the week has not gone well (the InfoServers continue to run without a glitch, though). Well, what can I say about them?! I have 4 IS-150's, and just received 2 of the newer IS-1000's. I have each 150 hooked up to a 5 and 7 drive CD-ROM tower populated with Toshiba XM3301 drives. I have each 1000 in the same 8-drive tower with Toshiba XM3401 drives. I purchased these towers from CD-ROM, Inc., in Colorado and the drives from another vendor. Essentially they're the same as the Infoserver Librarian tower (built by Virtual Microsystems in California), except that it's not quite as expensive, doesn't have 'hot swap' capabilities, and I have to run the cables into the back of the unit. Since I am the library computer manager, and this was all bought with grant money, and I can diagnose and change CD-drives, I thought this was a better and cheaper solution. Our use now for these systems is exclusively DOS based CD's to our PC's, but if anyone on campus loaded the LAD drivers via DECNET (TCP/IP Pathworks is incompatible), they could run them as well. I can't say enough good things about these machines for running CD's. I wouldn't put tape drives on them though, too slow for writing to a unit off of an InfoServer, but extremely fast for reading! I haven't put any hard disks on them, but would see no problem with it. Our computer center has an older IS-100, they use for the VAX Consolidated Distribution CD's and for MOP loading DECServer 200 and 300's (for that, you can't beat their speed). I am an Ultrix shop, though and have loaded the InfoServer Client for Ultrix software. The new 1.1? version allows for more than 7 cd's to be loaded at one time. If you have specific questions, please email or call. George ======================================================================== George Yobst, Automation Specialist Internet: Mansfield Library GEORGE@RANKIN.LIB.UMT.EDU University of Montana Phone: (406) 243-2539 MUSENET: Missoula, MT 59812 FAX: (406) 243-2060 RANKIN::GEORGE "...it is impossible for anyone to begin to learn what he thinks he already knows." - Epictetus From: IN%"werner@mfc.panum.ku.dk" 5-OCT-1993 09:20:57.42 To: IN%"IN::'bhanson@cbe.ab.ca'@danpost.uni-c.dk" CC: IN%"WERNER@danpost.uni-c.dk" Subj: InfoServer Hello Bill Hanson, After sending a message to the CDROM list I found your request in my mailbox covering at least some of the same area, namely the InfoServer 1000. Did you get any responses ? If so could you share the replies with me ? I would like to get in contact with sites/people who use the InfoServer in order to learn from them, good or bad as we are evaluating a solution based on this box. Regards, ************************************************************************** * N. Werner Mortensen Phone: +45 3532 7520 * * University of Copenhagen Fax: +45 3532 7537 * * Blegdamsvej 3 e-mail: werner@mfc.panum.ku.dk * * DK-2200 Copenhagen N X.25: 238301043056::werner (DEC PSI) * * Denmark DECnet: 52482::werner * ************************************************************************** From: IN%"KAMBITSCH@Butler.EDU" "Tim Kambitsch, Butler University Libraries" 6 -OCT-1993 09:15:01.60 To: IN%"cdromlan%idbsu.bitnet@RUTH.BUTLER.EDU" CC: IN%"BHanson@CBE.AB.CA" Subj: Digital's Infoserver Librarian 1000 I missed (ignored?) the query from BHanson@CBE.AB.CA about DEC InfoServer's as a CD-ROM server. I'd like to make a few comments on the topic: First the rave reviews as to being solid, fast and reliable are true. We've had a IS-150 running for over a year, and the only troubles we have ever had were due to my tinkering with the box. I finally got around to rebooting it after six months just to see what would happen. (It came back in a few minutes just fine.) Before going out and buying one of these things, I would consider what your long term plans might be for accessing your CD-ROMs from end users workstations such as from faculty offices or student labs. I suggest this because: - The DEC Infoserver is _not_ a file server. Unless you create disk partitions for each workstation you'll likely need to install the search software on individual workstations. This may not be too bad if you only have a limited number of workstations in the library and you don't or won't have a link to a campus LAN. Of course you could use a File Server (e.g. Novell) to centrally mount and maintain a single copy of each search engine and any menuing software. That is what I do right now. The Library uses one of our lab Novell servers to serve up the search engine and menuing software. But this leads to a another set of issues. - The DEC Inforserver requires its own set of drivers on the client workstation. We have nearly 1000 workstations that could access our CD-ROMs. I have a licensed both the DOS and Mac clients for distribution around campus, but I cannot see doing so becuase of all the support that would require. The Mac client is certainly easier to distrubute, but in the "uncontrolled" environment of faculty workstations, I cannot imagine supporting even a limited number of users. - The DEC Inforserver drivers do nothing about MSCDEX. Add the memory requirements of MSCDEX to the 30K of memory required for DEC Infoserver drivers, and finding enough free memory for programs is difficult enough. If faculty and labs have TCP, Novell other TSRs installed you might as well forget it. That is what makes a SCSI Express type solution so appealling. If a user can get to a Novell server, they can access the CD-ROM software and data disks like any other application (At least that's what MDI leads one to believe ;-) I really don't want to make an investment in a Novell Server, both in terms of financial resources and the time required to manage the server. I wish there was an NLM for our Novell server that would eliminate the need for DEC's drivers on the workstation and MSCEDX, but still use the Inforserver for all the things it does very well. That would allow CD-ROM based services to join the "mainstrean" of services avialable on campus. Tim Kambitsch INTERNET: kambitsch@butler.edu Butler University Libaries BITNET: kambitsch@butleru.bitnet