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Dear John Doug and I have had some offlist discussion about this but I have to respond to your point about Fair Use not being on the verso page of print materials or in T&C on websites because what is Fair Use in the US does not necessarily carry over into Fair Use in other countries, and YouTube particularly, but also print matter, is worldwide. So to refer to it in their Terms and Conditions or on the verso page of a book would be irrelevant anywhere but the US. In Australia, our educational authorities purchase specific licences for us to cover the use of materials in the classroom (not tertiary institutions) The terms of these licences are quite specific but give us broader freedoms that what you have under Fair Use from I can determine by LM_NET posts. Although there are Fair Use clauses in the Copyright Act 1968 for the general public, the US version of these does not apply here. Here are some questions I have raised with Doug ... and I think the first one is particularly pertinent. 1. If you upload a video to YouTube do you assign intellectual property rights and copyright to them? In Australia, at least, you are forever recognised as the creator of something and IP can't be signed away although copyright can. Having their T&C as they do, are the YouTube bods acknowledging that while they are offering a forum for presentation they own neither IP or copyright and therefore THEY don't have the right to allow people to download the clips (and possibly alter them, redistribute them in a different format or claim them as their own which are the untouchable moral rights of the author). If YouTube is acknowledging their position with IP and copyright though these T&C, shouldn't we tell the kids that this is why we can't download them and view them as a class, and thus reinforce the messages about citing sources and anti-piracy etc. There seems to be no reference to writing the URL and the clip's title/search term on the board (or distributing it to the kids) and suggesting they watch it at home. How many kids would love to tell their parents that watching a YouTube clip was a legitimate part of their homework. Whether the copyright owner is a large multi-national or an LM_NET member we need to recognise and respect the purpose of copyright is to protect the rights of the creator, and without it, people like Toni Buzzeo and all the other authors on this list could not afford to produce the stuff that they do. 2. Does the legality of the T&C have to be proven in case law in every country? If it is proven to be upheld (or not) in the US, does that therefore hold for use in Australia? 3. Does everything have to be proven in case law before it can be claimed legal? I still hold the view, that no matter how silly, we cannot pick and choose which laws we choose to obey and which we don't. If we think something is so silly or whatever that it needs to be changed, then we need to take the steps to change it, not just break it and advocate others do the same, particularly in our professional lives. Is your job worth that 60 second clip you are showing? How would you have presented that material three years ago before YouTube? Could the legality and changing the YouTube T&C be a real-world investigation that students could undertake? How much LEARNING would that generate? Barbara Barbara Braxton Teacher Librarian COOMA NSW 2630 AUSTRALIA E. barbara.288@bigpond.com Together we learn from each other -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note: All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. You can prevent most e-mail filters from deleting LM_NET postings by adding LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU to your e-mail address book. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. * LM_NET Help & Information: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ * LM_NET Archive: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/archive/ * EL-Announce with LM_NET Select: http://lm-net.info/ * LM_NET Supporters: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ven.html * LM_NET Wiki: http://lmnet.wikispaces.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------