Re: HIT-->Macs and Ibms networked together

[Ken Knutson <kknutson@CLN.ETC.BC.CA>]

Hello out there!  This is just the kind of problem we are looking at.  I
attempted to write to Don Shields, but my mail was sent back each time.
don if you read this, can you write to me?  I have 8 ibm clones networked
using Lantastic and now other classrooms are interested in networking
their Macs to our automated library system.  They are macs of the old
variety.
 Can Don or anyone write back to me.
Sincerely,
Ken Knutson<kknutson@cln.etc.bc.ca>


On Fri, 28 Oct 1994, Sandra Lee Parks wrote:

> Wow! Thanks to all of you who responded to my query about
> networking Macintoshes and IBMs together. I feel that, as
> usual, you LM_NET folks really gave me a good (and fast)
> overview on a confusing topic.
>
> Sandy Parks
> Harrisonburg High School
> Harrisonburg, VA
> sparks@pen.k12.va.us
>
> Sandra
> I think Novell runs both at the same time.  I know you'll get
> better,
> more complete answers and specific help from close around you,
> but this
> is a start to be working on.
> achurch@ctp.org Annette Church, Westside School, Rio Linda USD
> CA
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, it is a big question with two camps and two points of view.
> Apple has been throwing computers at schools for years so why do
> the schools Apple based keep asking me for the resources we con-
> sider standard on the IBM systems. The other side of this is
> that
> they want to retain the simpleness of the Apple.
>
> I feel in most cases it is a contradiction in terms. As a
> network
> consultant and working for my own local district we have battled
> this question for years, yes a clear winner has emerged but is
> is
> many times more a matter of funding and getting the biggest bang
> for the buck.
>
> Unless you live in San Rafel, the battle seems to be won by
> Novell
> and the IBM clones for best cost and useablility in a network
> setting. Although you can run a mixed platform on a Novell
> network,
> the Apple partion has a diffrent structure from the rest of the
> system. The best way to share information is to have the Apple
> emulate the IBM, the rub however, is the severe performance
> degredation.
>
> The best of both worlds? I recently did some consulting work at
> a elementary school that is the last hold out in a district
> converted
> to IBM's from Apples. The problem? They felt disasociated with
> the
> rest of the school system. The other schools had "moved on".
> They
> had shared resources with other schools, the district, direct
> WAN
> connections E-Mail, a cheap internet server, shared CD-ROMs. BTW
> this district has very little funding. The elementary never had
> the
> money to afford the more expensive lan setup for the apples so
> they
> opted for more and more "free" macs. When I suggested they
> start buying
> the PowerMac's instead (Which I could easily integrate into both
> systems) they balked at the price. The principal, a fierce Apple
> supporter finally asked me if she could have an IBM on her desk
> just
> so she could communicate with everyone else.
>
> I would love to see more mixed platforms in schools, and there
> are many
> that have them, but you must have the resources to to it
> properly.
> If your school has the funding, by all means consider it. I
> don't
> believe anyone should be a slave to just one operating system or
> hardware choice.
>
> Don Shields
> Mammoth Unified School District
> The Network Group
> 0006514421@mcimail.com
>
>
> Yes, you can run Macs and PCs on a Novell network.  You must
> purchase
> Netware for Macintosh plus the usual Novell software, and the
> file server
> must be a PC.  You can network CD-ROMs for the PCs through
> Novell, but
> unless the search software for the CDs is available for both
> PCs and Macs
> (unusual) you won't be able to use the same CDs on both
> platforms.
>
>
> Carol Mann Simpson                   csimpson@tenet.edu
> Facilitator - Library Technology          214 882-7450
> Mesquite (TX) Independent School District
>
>
>
> X-Vms-Mail-To: UUCP%"sparks@PEN.K12.VA.US"
>
> Hi.. We are running both platforms on the same network - but
> through a VAX,
> which uses a UNIX base.  The program that makes this possible
> is called "Path-
> works."  The idea is that we should each be able to choose what
> vehicle we
> want to put on the road, but the road should be able to
> accomodate all types.
> Thus, in the initial planning for this school, the
> recommendation was made
> (by me, primarily) and approved that we use this setup.  I
> don't know of
> any other ways to do this type of communication at this point
> in time, but
> things have probably changed in the last two years, when the
> initial planning
> was done!
> Kim Carter
> Souhegan High School
> Amherst, NH   03031
> kcarter@shs.mv.com
>
>
>
> Yes, it is possible to run both IBM & Macs on the same
> network.  We upgraded
> our IBM Baseband network to an IBM/Mac Novel Netware
> 3.12/IClass 10BaseT
> network.  Novel has a product called MacNetware that allows
> Macs to be on the
> same network as IBM's.  I automated our media center at the
> same time using
> Follets Catalog/Cir Plus.  We use an IBM server, an IBM
> circulation station
> and both IBM & Mac student workstations.  There are around 40
> IBMs and 30
> Macs on the network and all can access the library data base.
> (Follet
> provides a program call Mac+? that allows Macs to access the
> library data
> base with a Mac interface.  Works great!)  The Macintosh users
> use the IBM
> server to save files and share printers.  Every student has
> their own folder
> on the server where they store files from both operating
> systems.  From the
> Mac, they can create folders within folders.  Novel security is
> foolproof.
>  It functions just like any disk would on any Mac.  (It dose
> not have to act
> like an IBM.)  The server on a Mac desktop looks just like a
> Mac icon,
> complete with folders, etc.  We store the individual Mac
> software programs
> (like MicrosoftWorks) on the individual Mac hard drives for the
> sake of
> speed.  You could have them on the server, but have been told
> it really slows
> the network down.  Students use the same user ID and password
> to log on to
> the server from both types of machines.
> I have not networked any of our CD's yet. That's next summers
> project.  You
> will not be able to access IBM CD's on a Mac or visa versa.
> (but who knows,
> somebody will probably come up with a way) I will network my MS
> Dos
> Infotrac CD and Sirs CD first.  Most of my workstations in the
> library are MS
> Dos machines.
>
> The more high end products like Wordperfect and MicroSoft Word
> have built in
> translators that very easily read both formats back and forth.
> (files only,
> not programs) So you could write a paper on an IBM, and go to a
> Mac and call
> up the fill or go the other way.  All text based files will
> easily go back
> and forth.
>
> We felt that both machines have their advantages and
> disadvantages for
> various curriculum areas.  Students and teachers have both
> kinds of machines
> at home.  We thought this is the best approach.  Now we are not
> limited to
> one type of operating system.  I can unplug a Mac and use the
> same cable plug
> to set an IBM machine in it's place.
>
> Advice:  Get the fastest workstations and server you can afford
> and a large
> hard drive on the server.  (Ours is 1GB for a small 7-12 high
> school w/550
> students.)  Research the type of cable you will use.  Has great
> implications
> for future upgrades.  Most of our Macs are LC475's and older
> 386 IBM's with acoup
> le 286's.  The 386 machines work great, but we would need 486
> machines
> in order to use MS Windows.
>
> Curt Pickavance
> Plainview H.S.
> Plainview, MN
>
>
>
> Yes, yes, yes.  It's possible.  I refer you to two people:
>         Kay Sibley
>         Oroville High School
>         10th & Ironwood
>         Oroville WA 98844
>         509/476-2476
>         wlma144@llkcts.ll.pbs.org
>
>         Bob Sharp
>         Bremerton Junior High
>         1300 E 30th
>         Bremerton WA 98310
>         206-478-5025 (best between 1:15 & 3:00 Pacific Time)
>         roberts@orca.esd114.wednet.edu
>
>
> Good luck.
> Susan Baker
> Bremerton (WA) High School
> sbaker@orca.esd114.wednet.edu
> We have both Macs and PCs with windows on our schoolwide
> network. We run
> Windows NT Advanced Server software.  Every classroom teacher
> has a desktop
> computer and they were given a choice of Mac or PC.  After a
> year , most
> everybody agrees that a mixed network was a mistake.  Yes, both
> platforms can
> function on the same network.  But most programs, even when
> available in both
> platforms, cannot exchange files easily.  Purchasing software
> is a nightmare
> because site licenses generally include only one platform so in
> order to
> include everybody it costs twice as much!  Training is a
> nightmare because
> every time new software is introduced training must be provided
> twice, once for
> each platform.  My guess is that the situation is changing and
> that the
> machines of the future will run both software platforms; after
> all the net
> already supports multiple platforms quite well.  But in the
> meantime, beware
> when throwing Macs and PCs together at a site.
>
>                       Henry Gordon
>                       Librarian-Media Teacher
>                       Samuel Jackman Middle School
>                       Elk Grove Unified School District
>                       Sacramento, California
>
>
>
> I'm not an expert, but I'm a little further down the same
> road.  Did you
> read that humorous piece a few weeks ago that compared DOS,
> Macs, and
> Windows to different religious persuasions? (The one that
> highly offended
> one person, but that others of us thought was great humorous
> writing.)
> That's it in a nutshell--fans of each platform are for the most
> part like
> religious fanatics.  I can tell you it is possible to run both
> on the
> network.  The question I don't have a clear answer to is
> exactly what the
> capabilities of each would be to access each other.  What you
> need is
> either one of those rare individuals who has experience with a
> network
> running both, or, what I finally succeeded in doing, a meeting
> of experts
> of various persuasions and experiences where they can hash out
> their
> differences of opinion with each other and come to some kind of
> agreement
> before translating into plain English for you.  Good luck!
>
> Sister Penny Cunningham  pscunnin@mailbox,syr.edu
> St. Mary-Basha Catholic School
> Chandler, Arizona
>
> parks@pen.k12.va.us>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
> Our district is planning on running both systems on our
> networks.  The
> problem lies in cost of duplicate network (Novel) software
> which allows
> both systems to communicate.  The newer Mac which can run
> something like
> DOSMount seem like it would also make it easier for the
> computers to
> communicate.  These computers are already able to directly use
> DOS
> files.  So far our side just hasent been able to spend the
> money to
> purchase the Mac Novel package.  Good luck.  I would like to
> hear how
> well it really works.
>
> Eunice A. Heideman, Librarian
> Bernardo Heights Middle School
> 12990 Paseo Lucido
> San Diego, CA 92128
> FAX: (619) 485-4860   Voice, Work: (619) 485-4850
>