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Here's the second half of the hit posted by: Richard Vance Carson LIS Student getting Media Coordinator certification University of North Carolina at Greensboro zyg@worldnet.att.net XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx You ask a BIG question! I don't think that there is a "global" answer for this question. Depending on your school, how the program is set up (i.e. flexible, rigid, teacher-directed, librarian-directed, teacher/librarian directed, study hall (God forbid!); your school "culture," and other variables I can't even begin to imagine, the answer will vary. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX My advice would be to start out tough. It is much easier to relax the rules later than it is to toughen up on the rules later. Someone posted a hit on a similar line about a week or two ago. I think it was called "The First Day of School" or something like that. Check the archives. Good luck. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX My teachers do come to the library with their classes. When I do orientation, I tell the classes (with teacher present)-"Remember, this is still Ms/Mrs/Mr Name's class, it is simply meeting in a different location." " I'm sure your teacher will expect you to follow the same rules here that you do in class." " I am here to help your teacher, not to replace them." " Think of me as your guest speaker." etc. Hope this helps..... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I know that they are telling you in Library School all about the wonders of teamwork and co-operative teaching of thematic units. But for most of us in the real world it is not happening yet. Most of the time that you have students in the LMC, YOU are THE teacher. Students get to go to the library just like they get to go to Art, Music, and PE. The teacher brings them to your door, leaves for her "prep time," and comes back at the end of the period (You hope, before the next class arrives). If you have not had a course in classroom management yet you better get one soon. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Please post a hit! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I have been a LMS for 12 years. I believe that we must take responsibility for discipline if we want the students to respect us and think of us as teachers. I have the rules posted and they are general. I have time out seats, keep kids in for recess and occassionally contact parents. If a child stays in for recess he or she has a paper to complete briefly stating why they are in and how they will change their behavior. I don't speak over kids voices, I wait for quiet and find that the kids tell each other to shut up. Be firm and consistant, start each class fresh, let the kids know you like them, but that you expect them to be respectful. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX You will probably get loads of feedback on this one.... I found my first year that you need to take a very firm line from the beginning. Tell them the rules, the expectations and the consequences and then make sure you stand by them. After a month or so, you can back off a bit. But it is much easier to start out strict and back up then be too soft and get stricter. You also need to act as if the room was yours - which it is. When you are in front of the class, you are in charge of discipline whether the teacher is there or not. You'll never get control of the group if they keep looking to the teacher for punishment. Its a little like when you were a kid and you had to "just wait til your father gets home!" No one was afraid of mom but boy watch out for dad! Most teachers just sort of kick back while you are teaching and then helpselect books. Discipline and reward are your job. Good luck! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Richard - At the elementary level: Make your lessons interesting and hands on as much as possible. Don't tolerate misbehavior. Have clear cut rules, stressed at beginning of year, maybe even posted in the library. I think LMS is in charge of discipline in the library. It's his/her turf and he/she should set the limits. I only ask a teacher to help in extreme circumstances. I sometimes consult with a teacher if the same student continues to have problems, and we come up with a plan together. Consequences - misbehavior during checkout means the student leaves the center for the rest of the day. Misbehavior during class means the student is works by him/herself, away from others. Generally, kids like the library and usually behave fairly well. If students in a particular class tend to have problems, I sometimes use a seating chart rather than letting them sit by friends. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX When a teacher is in the media center with the class, I expect the teacher to handle discipline. I will tell the teacher when I see something or hear something inappropriate. If the teacher doesn't do anything (rarely happens), I step in or I suggest that perhaps it's time for the class to leave (that usually gets action from a reluctant teacher). Teachers are always with the classes except for the classes that have library periods during teacher preps. Hope this helps. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Generally I speak to the teacher and say things like "In case you didn't see...." or "I thought you might like to know..." when it involves goofy behaviour. If the teacher isn't there I send them back to class and call the teacher. When it comes to computer infractions I get directly involved because the teacher may not realize what they're up to. For plagiarism concerns I speak to the student and the teacher. In other words there is no magic answer that can offer. As you get to know the staff better you will be better able to judge how they would best like things to work. I know who is comfortable with my direct relations with "their" kids and who gets defensive. Different people have different levels of tolerance for things like messes and noise level. When the noise is driving me nuts or I am going to get stuck with the mess I speak up - loud and clear. I hope my next comment isn't terrible. There are some groups that I dread and just slog through it, because I know that the teacher isn't going to do much about anything. Sorry, but I don't know how to put this reality nicely. Sometimes I have to leave for awhile and come back after a bit of time spent elsewhere. This is quite easy to do because I have lots of things going on with people in classrooms. I don't have to feel too guilty because I am still doing my job, but I still do. Thankfully it is quite rarely that I "escape" to other work. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Richard: I jumped into the Media Spec. role with no previous teaching educ. or experience. ( I earned my cert. by alternate route, which was no easy task). This is also my biggest problem. The school I was in and my new school (I start next week) use library as a teacher's prep, which means I'm the only teacher at that time. I have tried using a point system for good behavior, using my lunch pd. and their recess as punishment, but one of the most effective methods is simply separating them to a single table away from the group. I would be interested in hearing what other say on this. Please post a hit. Thanks! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Media center discipline, like all discipline, depends partly on school climate and policies. In a school where teachers accompany classes to media center, you can expect teachers to help manage students, but you'll need to set tone. You'll also need to establish your rules and procedures, then communicate them to teachers and students. I highly recommend Harry Wong's _First Days of School_ to help you think through essential rules and procedures. For example, one of my rules is, "Engage in productive activity." (I have grades 5-12.) During our orientation discussion, my fifth graders help me generate a list of "productive activities" -- reading magazines, studying, using computers, seeking books, researching, etc. -- and a list of "unproductive activities" -- talking, running around shelves, walking around with nothing to do, sleeping, staring into space. We also discuss consequences: suggestion that student find a magazine to read or another productive activity, instruction to move to another table away from social group, instruction to return to class immediately. Not exactly what you asked for, but maybe it'll help. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX If a student is misbehaving in my library, I ask him/her to leave. If the behavior is really obnoxious, I send a note to the teacher asking not to send the student back unaccompanied by the teacher for a certain period of time, depending upon the offense. Works for me! XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Is the teacher is the room also? (It can be a little tricky when the class is with a teacher.) Otherwise, it's your area & your rules apply. If they don't behave, they don't stay. Simple, easy. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX This is my fifth year as a LMS at the middle school level and I must say that it definitly depends on the particular situation. What I do is have an orientation at the benning of the school year by having all the English classes come in to hear my speech. This includes my expectations for what the students behavior is when they come in. If I know that the group is a particularly tough one I will talk to them before they are released to doing their research. If you are colaborating with the teacher on a unit you can talk with them about any concerns that you have. Just remewmber that the library is your responsibilty, if it is left a mess then it is you that will be judged about what it looks like. Good luck, it is a wonderful job. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX We use Lee Canter's Assertive Discipline Program in our district. In fact, one of my previous principals retired and is now working with Lee giving workshops to district teachers & parents across the country. Canter has written numerous books and teacher guides, some with his wife as author or co-author. They would be very helpful for you as a student. With assertive discipline, each teacher, including the Media specialist, decides on up to 6 classroom expectations, and rewards and consequences for positive and negative behavior. These are listed and discussed at the beginning of school and reinforced consistently throughout the year. When working with teachers who accompany their classes, both teachers can and do reinforce this system. Since we all do it, most classroom expected behaviors are the same; I address my classroom and specific media behaviors, and where appropriate and not obtrusive, the teacher does the same. We work as a team to provide the best educational experiences for our children. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 8/25/99 Yoruba Proverb: The child who is not afraid of anybody will develop bad manners. Dear Richard, A teacher who can manage her classroom will earn the respect of her students and they will manage themselves. Clearly state what you will and will not accept, (one teacher who wanted to bring her class to the library told me she intended to bring the class to the library and "turn them loose." She said she didn't know what my expectations were... I told her they were the same as they were in her own H. S. Library...she was in her late 40's). I then went over the rules and regulations with her, ( she had joined the staff mid-quarter). An institution usually has a code of rules defining socially accepted behavior whether it is a school library, a courtroom, or a church. Use of the Media Center is a privilege, not a right, socially acceptable behavior is expected at all times. When teachers sign up for library periods they are reminded that they are responsible for classroom management. All school rules are enforced in the library. I ask teachers to review library rules and regulations before they bring a class to the library. At the beginning of the session, if a student forgets the school or library rules of common civility, I usually quietly point it out to the teacher. Later in the session, I'd probably handle the situation myself. I've had to suggest to a teacher with poor classroom management skills that students could be sent to the library individually until the class could behave with more respect for themselves and consideration for others while in the library. ( Some of the students were climbing on the desk and throwing papers and completely ignored their teacher's admonitions and threats)! Insist the students and teacher respect both themselves and the rights of others. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Dear Richard: Please share with lerkers any info you get on this one. I am also new and would like input on the same subject. Thanks. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX This is an interesting question. Usually not addressed in Library Media Courses. But of real world consequence to practicing media specialists. I have been a Media Spec. for 9 years before that I spent a year as a Children's Librarian. I was trained as a Media Spec. It would have been a rude awakening to have been a Children's Librarian and then get a job as a Media Coordinator. In flexible scheduled Media Centers, it is usually not as much as a problem because the teacher remains with her class. I was in a K-5 school in SC and the K-2 were sceduled every week, 3-5 were flex. Now, I'm in a k-5 school in NC and I'm totally fixed. I'm a planning period for teachers. My rules are the following: Enter quietly, begin work. Do not disturb others. Take care of all materials. Return all materials when you are finished with them. I got these rules from Becky Bridges 11 years ago. She is a Media Spec. in SC, Anderson District 1. She got them from Eleanor Haton who is also a Media Spec, also in SC, Spartanburg district, she has been teaching for over 30 years. These rules can be used in a K-12 setting. My conseqences are 1. Warning 2. Removal from group 3. Return to classroom or office. I really can't return anyone to their classroom because I am their planning period. I go over the rules the first few weeks of school. I have to be really tough and their are classes that I don't accomplish much with since I have to spend all my time doing the discipline thing. In the past 2 years, I've had some really tough classes, we used to have 6th grade. This year I'll only have one really tough class and I am so thankful!! BEH, behavior - emotionally handicapped students are mainstreamed so those classes with BEH students can be a real challenge. I have K-3 for "library" and 4-5 I teach keyboarding, etc. Please let me know if you have any other questions or if I can help you in any way. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Thanks to one and all for your input on this question. The various perspectives have been very helfpful to me. Thanks! Richard Vance Carson LIS Student getting Media Coordinator certification University of North Carolina at Greensboro zyg@worldnet.att.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-= All postings to LM_NET are protected under copyright law. To quit LM_NET (or set-reset NOMAIL or DIGEST), send email to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL or 3) SET LM_NET DIGEST 4) SET LM_NET MAIL * Please allow for confirmation from Listserv For LM_NET Help & Archives see: http://ericir.syr.edu/lm_net/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=