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Mr. Doyle, I divide the computers in my library by function somewhat (currently only 3 divisions, OPAC, electronic encyclopedias and WEB/Periodicals/Misc. reference) and dedicate them to their respective purposes on the library floor near their print brethren because it works as a teaching tool. If it didn't, I wouldn't do it. In fact, I do it because I realized that, paradoxically, our students were getting less literate and info savvy as access to info was increasing. Because : Access to information wasn't the problem! Understanding was. Synthesizing was. Discriminating was! This methodology facilitates the teaching of resource types, so that kids recognize them, learn their strengths and weaknesses. In these days when everyone is a library expert by virtue of the fact that they have net dial-in at home, it is really essential to say, in effect, "slow down, let's consider this stuff carefully; What type of info do we need? Where might we best look? What do we stand to find? Who wrote this? How do we credit their work?" et cetera, et cetera. Working with both electronic and print information tools on the library floor facilitates the teaching of these basic skills without creating any access barriers, in fact-- unlike labs in our school which are accessed only through class scheduling-- my stuff is always open to individuals and groups. Presenting arrays of materials this way lets kids experience tangible synergies and dichotomies between and among a spectrum of resources as they work. How can you beat that? I'll tell you: When you get sixty kids running around using a well-chosen variety of tools to accomplish a variety of tasks, it's as good as it gets. I can say this with confidence: My faculty appreciates me taking a lead in addressing bibliography, authority, plagiarism and all of the peripheral issues that get neglected easily when kids use computers to gather information, especially if they're gathering info in a computer lab, under the supervision of a tech teacher or para-pro. I host workshops on developing research projects and understanding the role of electronic tools as a complement to traditional resources. They appreciate me sorting this stuff out for them: They tell me how they were gradually beginning to realize that, for instance, many kids were getting their source material for their reports from reports posted on the web by other kids, or that they feared their kids were becoming "cut-and-paste scholars," using technology as a shortcut past understanding, rather than as an expedient towards it. The staff in our computer labs also approached me with the same concerns. Recognizing authority, discouraging plagiarism, crediting authors: they were confused about this stuff, and it was palpable. In a sense, I've just stepped up and said "I CAN HELP YOU WITH THESE PROBLEMS! THEY'RE NOT NEW, AND THEY'RE NOT INSURMOUNTABLE! C'MON IN: WE DO THIS STUFF IN THE LIBRARY" Many older faculty were relieved to find at my workshops that the mission of the library hasn't really changed at all, some of the methods have. I find that in teaching information literacy, the approach is education, to staff and students, bit by bit by bit. Establishing functional divisions in our info tools, in any media, which students can learn to recognize and investigate with every library visit, makes conceptual sense to me. It provides many more opportunities for quick teaching. (I have data projectors at every cluster of computers) It has increased my traffic, helped me establish new and renewed relations with faculty, enhanced our reputation as a robust and thoughtful practitioner of the au courant, rather than a quaint nod to the desiccated and dusty didactic past, (popular perceptions, not mine) and kept our kids safe from all of the crud on the net by virtue of the fact that kids know we are hip and monitoring their on-line work. Our PTO likes what I am doing so much that they have paid for the facilitation of much of it. The only drawback is that it is lots of work. You have to be there, vigilant and ready to teach at the drop of a hat, often in the form of hushed little individual work sessions. Let's consider those all-in-one type resources, you alluded to. True: They're more common than ever, and I don't like them so much. When our version of infotrac added a non-periodical resource, I was disappointed. Now they're still basically a periodical index/text resource, but with a couple crummy reference works thrown in. What's the point in that? All they've done there is muddy the waters for teaching. I've told them so. I don't fight the inevitable though, the difficulty with sources which tend to blend together disparate resources is that, inevitably they have to be dissected before they can be analyzed. Again-- ACCESSING information has never been the problem in my library, TEACHING how to choose it, understand it, and use it in a prescribed fashion has. And what of the CIRCULATION and CATALOG vendors who tie web references directly into their catalogs so that students can hop on the web directly? A neat idea in theory perhaps, but a ludicrous one, in practice, at least in my k-12 situation! No one here will touch it with a ten-foot pole. Because, of course, it would promote lazy scholarship and kids would be surfing on it all day long--who the hell is kidding who! I would do the same thing if I was twelve! In fact, I could see myself playing with a catalog as an adult! Days of thoughtless reverie...an ADHD cornucopia! Why look at a catalog record when you can look at pictures of people having sex? Clifford Stoll in his great book subtitled "Second thoughts on the information highway" warned us to be aware of the fantasy of the "Universal Workstation." This Internet pioneer wrote that the dream of sitting at a computer and having everything--absolutely everything--available at the punch of a button is an alluring, but illusory, fantasy. "Primarily, " he adds, "a male fantasy." Believing this to be true, I want only to present all of the best resources in concert, on the library floor, because I believe people will always need to make similar educated choices among media and content types. Tony: It's all about what works. Your methodology might be a better approach for you, or your patron population. I like my approach. It keeps students in the facility where I can best attempt to teach them and discourage a lazy approach to scholarship which leans on technology as a plaything, shortcut or distraction. Here, in this specific school building, it keeps teachers who want their kids to "look up something on the Internet" from doing so in a computer lab wherein the height of their instruction will be learning how to place the cursor and enter a keyword into a search engine. How does this approach pay off? It's evidenced in this way: Kids and teachers used to always say this to me: "Do ya think I could look this up on the computer?" Increasingly, they say things like "Do you think I could get a newsweekly article on this from INFOTRAC?" or "Would Current Biography have an article on this lady?" Yeah-- I want my tools IN the library, on the floor. I do, of course, make them accessible from without when possible, I just take pains to try to insure that they know that those tools don't constitute every information option under the sun. Witness HTTP://hps.k12.mi.us/~hwms/content/library.html Thanks for reading! Jeff Hastings School Library Media Specialist Highlander Way Middle School Howell, Michigan 48843 hastings@hps.k12.mi.us -----Original Message----- From: Doyle_Tony [mailto:tdoyle@MUHSD.K12.CA.US] Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Why computer labs suck. We have a computer lab in our library and it works great. It is not a remote location but it is a distinct section of the library. Books in libraries are divided into sections (by Dewey or LOC) to speed access. These arrangements work pretty well but they are artificial and not perfect (e.g. why do I have to go to 3 or 4 different sections to see all of the books by Asimov?). With electronic sources this division is unnecessary. We don't have separate encyclopedia computers and magazine database computers and Internet computers. They are all the same computers. We can have 30 kids looking at the same encyclopedia article or they can all be doing different things. Some electronic resources defy this artificial division into categories such as reference, periodical, Internet, etc. The kids can use Encarta to jump directly to useful Web sites without having to search. Electric Library combines periodicals, reference books, images and other types of information into one easily searchable product. Products from vendors such as Follett are even blurring the line between the catalog and the Web. Our students can access the catalog from any computer then walk across the room and get the book or click on Web links embedded in the bibliographic records. They can also search the catalog at one of our sister schools and request an ILL and receive the book 2 days later. The "other" computer functions are also not distinct from the research process. Students build links to Web pages and programs into Power Point presentations. They also copy sections of Web pages or long articles into Word documents for more efficient printing and can even e-mail articles from Electric Library and other applications to their home accounts. The physical location of computers does not send the message that books are inferior. It is poor instructional design that does that. The teacher who sends kids to the library and tells them they must get their information from the Web when a book would be ten times faster reduces the value of the print collection. It is also the instructor who doesn't make kids evaluate Web sites critically that contributes to this. Many of the teachers at our school do an outstanding job designing research projects that combine print and electronic resources and the students learn the value of both types. Computer based resources are different from their print counterparts. Sometimes better (e.g. magazine databases) sometimes inferior (online novels). They are changing the way information is accessed and blurring the lines between sources. I don't think we should try to separate the various functions of computers into discreet units when in actuality they are becoming more integrated. As long as the kids have physical access to the books and computers and to the librarian, attaching a lab to the library makes sense. I look at it as an expansion of the library's space (always a good thing). In fact networking has allowed us to expand the library into every classroom. All of our electronic tools, including the catalog, are available all over campus. -- Tony Doyle, Librarian (and book lover) Livingston HS, Livingston, CA tdoyle@muhsd.k12.ca.us -----Original Message----- ... I mentioned that I thought attaching a COMPUTER LAB to a school library was a tired, old paradigm, done by default, for lack of a more creative way to deliver electronic resources... something like that. A few of you objected, thinking perhaps that I don't wish to use electronic tools in my library. No sir. I use electronic tools IN my library. Exclusively IN the library. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-= All postings to LM_NET are protected under copyright law. To quit LM_NET (or set-reset NOMAIL or DIGEST), send email to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL or 3) SET LM_NET DIGEST 4) SET LM_NET MAIL * Please allow for confirmation from Listserv. For LM_NET Help see: http://ericir.syr.edu/lm_net/ Archives: http://askeric.org/Virtual/Listserv_Archives/LM_NET.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=