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 > Hi Mary,
 > If you got some good answers to this, I'd love to know what you learned. I
 > sent a similar question a few weeks ago, worded differently, and didn't
 > really get any info that would help me. Thanks
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear LM_NETers,

I received 17 responses to the question of role definition and job boundaries
between the library departments and the computer departments in schools.
This is a gray area, and personalities play a major role in how the
respective job duties are split and performed. In most responding schools the
librarian and the computer teachers are autonomous and generally
collaborate.  The librarian teaches research skills and purchases the
software that is used in the library for research.  The computer
teacher/technology coordinator purchases the software for the teachers and
the computer lab, where s/he teaches  applications and often search engines
and searching the internet.

HIT**********HIT************HIT***************HIT****************HIT

Subject: Re: gen: Librarian vs. Computer teacher--role definition

This is a hit of the responses for the role definition and job boundaries of
the librarian and the technology/computer teacher as practiced in our
schools.  As one person wrote, “The key lies in the information seeking vs.
manipulating the tool idea.”

Thank you everyone who responded.
SUMMARY:

The role division seems to depend on the grade levels one teaches.  The
librarian teaches research skills especially in the higher grades.  S/he
sometimes collaborates with the technology teacher.  They may split teaching
Internet skills; Boolean searching is taught by the librarian, and search
engines is often taught by the computer teacher.  However, the librarian
often instructs students (in conjunction with the computer teacher or as a
follow up) how to navigate and search to get the most out of particularly
good or complex sites.  Librarians often create library web pages.

It is a gray area where the job duties overlap.  Personalities are the
deciding factor in the delivery of a good information literacy program
because cooperation is the most effective venue to utilize the strengths of
both departments (library and technology).

In most schools the librarian’s computers are maintained by the technology
expert, but the departments are autonomous and equal peers.  The computer
teacher teaches keyboarding, software applications, and Internet(searching, e-
mail, telnet, ftp, privacy and safety issues, creating web pages etc).  There
is overlap in the teaching of evaluating web sites, and their content.  The
librarian  instructs in electronic resources and multimedia software, and
purchases software used in the library; the computer department purchases for
the rest of the school.

The responses appear below. I removed names for privacy. Several members
wrote for information on this topic.  I would welcome more discussion on it,
if others are interested, too.
HIT

Mary Ziller wrote:

>If you have both computer teachers and librarian(s) at your schools,
>how are the respective roles as regards research (Internet delivered
>databases, CD-ROM and computer software purhasing) divided?

-----I'm at a middle school.  Most of our teachers are computer literate.
We have a lab with 30 computers, three in the library, ten in each science
room, 20 in each language arts room, and from one to five in other
classrooms.  Every computer is networked and has Internet access.  For the
very few teachers who are not computer savvy, I will take it upon myself to
take classes into the lab to teach applications such as PowerPoint, or when
I know a class is doing some type of research.  Otherwise, I just help
students on a one-to-one basis in context of their current project.

As for software purchasing, if anything is to be networked and I have some
idea of what I'd like to have purchased, I go to our technology director to
make sure it will work on our system.  I actually would like him to be the
one to purchase software so that it won't come out of the library budget!

>Is there competition or overlap of duties and responsibiities?  If
>so, how are the diferences resolved?

--------Competition?  No.  Overlap of duties and responsibilities?  Not very
often.  In the case of teacher inservices there has been overlap, but
nothing we'd fight over!  I think the  most important way to avoid problems
is open communication and respect.

>What are the job boundaries of the computer teachers and the librarians,
>i.e. the role of the technology Department vs. the Library Department.

---------The computer teachers are my peers.  We work together as a team.
An example:  When we were needing to purchase video cameras, two for the
library, one for the vocational technology lab, the instructor of vocational
tech (not our technology director) and I went together to choose the best
type for student needs.  We felt it would help both of us if we bought the
exact same camera.  That way, if students receive training in the tech lab,
I won't be burdened with training them and vice versa.  Although the scanner
is used primarily for his classroom assignments, it was felt that it should
be housed in the library since others may wish to use it.  Oftentimes, even
though they have written instructions from his class, I find myself
instructing those who don't follow written instructions very well.

The technology director is in charge of the network, the hardware, keeping
up-to-date on the latest technologies, etc.  I value his knowledge and go to
him for advice quite often.  He does not teach (except an occasional
inservice).  Sometimes he comes to me for advice regarding curriculum or
student interactions.

>Is the librarian subordinated under the Technology Director?

-----------The librarian is not subordinated under the technology director.
We work as a team.  He does, however, make more money than I do!
 I am at an independent school where there is a good relationship with the
computer department and the libraries.  It helps that I went to high
school and college with chairman of the computer department and that the
webmaster or systems administrator is very "pro" library.

At the lower school level the computer teacher handles most everything
related to computer research. Both she and the librarian like it that way.
  At the middle school level (that's me), the computer teacher teaches
search strategies for specific projects that she implements for her 5th
and 6th grade weekly classes.  I teach strategies for projects that the
classroom teachers (all grades 5 -8) design that require both book and
internet resources.   I have a plan that makes certain that within the
four years, students learn where the best places are to start for most
areas in the various humanities and sciences.  Any CD-Roms that are
usually associated ith a library - encyclopedia, periodicals,  reference
tools - are ordered by the librarians.  Teachers in individual subject
areas order items for their field out of their subject budget.  I'm not
sure what the computer teacher orders besides keyboarding programs.  Since
our school uses Clairsworks, she teaches all of those applications.  I am
not certain what the computer teacher at  the upper school level teaches
as far as research goes.  Librarian there  teaches as requested by
teachers.

 A key to cooperation is to volunteer to help computer teacher in some way
as soon as one comes on board.  Be very friendly so collaboration rather
than competition is the atmosphere.  The computer teacher I worked with
previously did not believe I was as skilled as he - because I wasn't with
the technical end.  Flattery of the computer teacher's skills helps, but
so does passing on the great web site findings to him/her so librarian's
skills are visible too.  I got the new computer teacher to help me with
technicalities of my library home page, but I wowed her with its content.

I suppose some schools could compose an itemized job description for the
internet duties of both librarian and computer teacher, but because there
is so much overlap in tasks, I bet personalities would still be the
ultimate factor in how the relationship develops. Look at the differences
between the three divisions in my school.
===============================================================
In our school the libary is a separarte dept from the Tech dept. Students
take a variety of tech classes from basic keyboarding to networking.  We
work well together and I sit on the site tech committee as do reps from
various other depts. The school has a tech plan, that is being enhanced by
the Digital High School grant. The next few years we will be offereing
teachers classes and support in new techniques and software.  We are a very
lucky school that supports technology throughout the curriculum.I never feel
threatened about my job.
===============================================================
The computer teacher and I work together, though we
both have well-defined roles (at least in our minds,
as there is no definite job description.)

She teaches the students and teachers how to use the
computers: proper terminology, care and maintenance,
keyboarding skills, basics (how to turn on/off, print,
load paper in the printer, etc.), word processing, and
programs such as Print Shop.  Teachers will ask her to
teach students certain curriculum related programs.
she also teaches use of the scanner and camera.

I teach all the library related stuff.  We collaborate
on software purchases and usually run (or at least,
plan) teacher in-service programs together.

We are viewed as equals.

We get along great.
===============================================================
i am in the MLS program (FSU), and currently working as a Media Resource
Tech. . .however, about 50% of my day is spent troubleshooting
hardware/software. . . our Tech Team is weak and barely functional.. .  we
are all basically solo in our roles. I am also the Network Administrator,
however the Tech Team president handles our school web page---Tech Team
members, only 2 though, also assist in trouble shooting. We have 60+
faculty, and three computer labs. . . separate duties, all reporting to
principal.
===============================================================
We have such a set-up. When it's time to teach Internet and searching /
researching we work as a team. She teaches the mechanics of utilizing the
computer equipment (how to type in a URL, how to dissect a URL, the
difference between a search engine and a meta-search engine, how search
engines work, etc.) Then I come in and do the research component (boolean
operators - which engines use them, authority, verifying information,
bibliographic information, etc). We work very well together and I'm happy
with the way we do it here.
===============================================================
At my school the librarian and tech coordinator are autonomous.  However, I
don't know much about computers.  She has a whole lab for students to
research in, whereas I just have one internetted computer.  I help students
on an individual basis when they are looking for information and we can't
find it in the library.  I try to keep up on new websites that come out and
would be of interest to our teachers. I get these from Carol Leita and from
posts on LM_Net.  The Tech lady does this also.  We are located next door
to each other and can cooperate on projects.  Sometimes half a class will
be researching on the internet and half in the library.  I haven't bought
any CD ROM's in the year and a half I have been here.

I do think that the overlap is a gray area and hope that you will post a
hit on this.
===============================================================
The computer lab and the library are joined with a common door...We work
together...I was my responsibility to train her to use the Internet, in turn,
when I am not there, she backs up the file server for me...We are, and have
been for seven years, a great team...

She is a big supporter of the Read In! and I am of reading...we share found
resources and I help her with the Reading Club.
===============================================================
Our school has both a librarian and a computer teacher.  I'm
in the library (surprise!), and he's in the computer lab --
two separate facilities.

When it comes to research, the students do it both places.
Print media and CD-ROM are done in the library, internet
searches (and some CD-ROM, too) are done in the computer
lab.  It's not really hard to coordinate this, in
conjunction with the classroom teachers who assign the
projects.  Each class in the school has one period per week
in the library, and one in the computer lab, so there's
plenty of time to do both kinds of research.  Also, there
are several free periods each week when there is no class in
the library or in the computer lab, and students can get a
pass from their classroom teachers to go to do individual
research during these times.  So we just work out what has
to be done assignment by assignment.  The students know
where to go to research in which fashion.

The computer teacher and I haven't had any difficulties with
this arrangement.  Neither of us is subordinate to the
other; rather, we are simply separate entities, just as the
classroom teachers are.  I'd be MOST annoyed if I were in a
subordinate position, and so, I'm sure, would the computer
lab teacher be!  Of course, I was librarian here long before
there was such a thing as a computer lab.  I've been here 19
years now, the the computer lab was only build three years ago.
===============================================================
That is an interesting question.  I am sure you will get a variety of
answers.  I am a librarian in a large urban school district.  I am in a
high school of 3000.  There is an infrastructure to support the schools.
The departments of library services and technology are separate.  The
department of technology has considerably more power, influence, and money
than library services.  We must sell our needs to them in order to provide
the technology components we require to serve the students.

At the building level the influence is dependent on the individuals.  At my
school both the CS teacher and myself have assumed leadership roles. We
work together running the tech committee, planning, and implementing.  At
other schools where the librarian is not a technology leader (due to skills
and interests), the leadership roles are filled by other people (teachers
and administrators).  I select databases and purchase them with library
funds.  We both teach internet skills to teachers, parents, and students.
The CS teacher and I teach a class every summer to the district librarians
on the Internet.  We also present at the state Technology conference.
Since he is more technical I depend on him to help me and others on certain
issues.  We have a great relationship.

Hope this helps.
===============================================================
I work at a k-6 elementary school with full internet access on my library's
8 student work stations and full internet access in our computer lab.  We
have a Tech. Specialist who provides instruction in keyboarding,
hyperstudio, curriculum integration etc.  However, my expertise with the
internet does not go unnoticed.  I work with the Tech. Specialist.... I
share any ideas I have and ask for her help to deliver the instruction. We
work as a team.  I don't see how competition between us would help the
students learn.
===============================================================
I am the middle school librarian in a 6-12 library in a k-12
school.  We have a director of libraries and a Director of technology, and
a new network administrator.  We also have two computer teachers, one for
elems, and one for middle/high school.  I have been at this school for
five years, and each year it's been a little different.  But once we had
internet throughout the building I raised the question with the middle
school computer teacher about how we would divide the teaching.  Being
good friends helped, but essentially we realized that I teach
information-seeking strategies using many tools, print and electronic.
She taught about search engines, navigational techniques, etc.  I taught
the idea of boolean searching, broader and narrower topics.  She taught
about subject directories, moving around etc.  We both help kids and
teachers find appropriate web sites.  Recently, as I was putting together
a project on global environmental studies with the 7th grade science
teacher, we discovered the epa.gov website for students.  We both explored
it and figured out how best to use it for the project.  So far the
computer teacher had not been involved.  I taught the kids how to plan to
search for info on their topic, how to navigate the site, split the screen
and take notes, cut and paste graphs and record their sources.  The
computer teacher taught them how to design and implement an effective power
point presentation with handouts for their audience. She had earlier taught
them to present numerical data on graphs with excel.
In this case because I was working so closely with the science teacher to
design the project and figure out what info they could get from this
single site, I taught the navigation on this site.  The computer teacher
had already taught them a lot about moving around on the internet and
strategies when in a multilevel site. I just wanted to make sure they
understood how complex this one was and where different kinds of info
could be.
I hope this gives you some idea of how we work it.  It fell into place
easily for us.  The key lies in the information seeking vs. manipulating
the tool idea.
===============================================================
I don't know if this is going to help you, but I serve both roles and answer
to both departments.  The library is completely my domain, and I share
teaching responsibilities in the lab with the remedial math teacher: This is
how our district justified full time positions in one building for both of us
-- in the past, we traveled.
I'm happy to have a job, so I'm not complaining...
===============================================================
We have an interesting situation in my school district.  They just hired
about 40 CITs or Computer Instructional Technologists.  Since we have 60+
elementary schools, these people are often divided between campuses which
is very difficult.  We also have a paraprofessional computer teacher.
She maintains the lab.  Up to two years ago, classes were scheduled in
and basic keyboarding, word processing, databases,
spreadsheets, etc. were taught.  Now, the lab is flexible.  Teachers sign
up to bring their classes.  Teachers have to have 3 independent projects
using the computer a semester.  It is all documented. The para now has to
give way to the CIT on Monday and Tuesday who teaches in her lab...the
overflow (those who didn't finish their work) come to me.  Unfortunately,
I rarely know what they are doing in class and seldom can help.
===============================================================
 We still have two departments but we meet together as one.
One department is not subordinate to the other and while we work
together to deliver research tools and teach technology skills, there
are still separate and important purposes for each department. We may merge
and call ourselves the Library and Information Services Department next year
because we do function as such to a great extent. Search skills and research
skills are integrated into the history department (6-12) and taught through
the library, while are also taught /reenforced in computer classes. We plan
to integrate more completely next year but really have to a great extent.
Research materials are purchased throught the library mostly for projects.
The library has just hired a library/technology person who will help us to
coordinate the two departments even more. I'm happy to discuss this further.

As librarian I teach the research skills and software that goes with the
research .  Our ITC assist if necessary.  I buy all the software that
will be used specifically in the library.  She buy school wide stuff,
sometimes we do make an agreement, I'll buy this if you buy that.  She
is in charge of all the computers in the building, including mine.
However, I take care of mine and only call her in when I have
problems.   She teacher the academic grade level software with the
classroom teacher.
===============================================================
At the high school the computer teachers teach applications and
keyboarding.  I teach researching skills, including internet.  I also usually
teach the multimedia presentation software that we have.  They don't have the
time and we do it as part of their research projects.
===============================================================
THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED!!!

Mary Ziller
Library Media Specialist
(not affiliated with an institution currently)
maryziller@yahoo.com



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