THANK YOU for all of the wonderful responses. This is just a start to our
research on the Saxon programs .... I divided the responses into Pro: Con:
and Mixed Feelings.... I put *********** between each individual
response.... Overall, the feeling I got was that it is like most
programs....has it good points and its faults. I'll share any other info. I
get....Thanks again !
PRO:
I have taught math using the saxon program. I liked the fact that in each
section that you did they gave review problems. In the elementary they
really stress the importance of math facts will many timed drills. I didn't
like the fact that they gave very few practice problems for every new
concepts.
*******
My three children have been home schooled all the way, and have used Saxon
almost completely. My son, a senior, is currently doing Saxon's calculus
book on his own (it has been more than 30 years since his dad used it). My
daughters, juniors, are in the Algebra 2 book. One is just finishing, and
the other is about halfway through it. The one who is finishing it will
probably stop at this point, since her interests lie in the arts rather
than the sciences. The other one may go on, since she wants to be a
preschool teacher. She's still looking at colleges, and it seems that
requirements vary greatly.
Saxon math is a very structured program. Each lesson introduces a small new
concept, and then it is practiced extensively for several lessons before it
appears on a test. It will continue to appear on exercises for years. That
way kids don't forget a concept. Geometry is included in the Algebra 1 and
Algebra 2 books.
If you want my son's take on it, write to Adam at kc0dad@arrl.net. Temper
his comments with the thought that he loves math, and has commented that
finally, after all these years, he is finally learning something new in the
lessons! He wants to be a hacker for the FBI, or something on that order,
so remember that he is a bit stranger than some of us!
*********
CONS:
In a former life I taught 7th grade math. My 3rd year there we adopted the
Saxon Math book. It looked like it would serve our purposes and we thought
we could develop individualized plans. However, in reality it did not
work. Too many students in a class to work like this. I did not like it
after this point because there was not enough practice sets on new
materials. For example, out of perhaps 25 problems there would be 5 or 6
about the new concept and the rest review of the previous chapters. I had
to develop a LOT of supplemental materials and it was very difficult if you
wanted to skip around the book.
*******
MIXED FEELINGS:
You miight want to drop in on any math teacher's discussion board and
look in their archives (search for "math forum," I think) - it's
debated much like whole lang. vs. phonics. I've considered using it w/
some individual students (in the special ed realm) and for those
individuals nixed it.
The pros say it gives kids lots of practice with the calculations
and fundamentals; the cons say it's weak on understanding the meaning
(does it sound like a familiar argument...). And funny thing...
depending on the individual student, it's very good or okay or very bad.
For kids who do better with concepts than rote memory, it's
frustrating, they don't do well, and they don't learn the math unless
the teacher's willing to go slowly enough for the practice to *really*
be enough (and even then, they may not connect the concepts). (Hence,
my nixing it for my individuals with that profile.)
For kids who are good with procedures - they take off. Most of
'em*do* figure out the concepts but a few are the mathematical
equivalent of "wordcallers' in reading - they can calculate beautifully
but have no idea how to use it.
Frankly, I wouldn't use it with a population that would tend to be
more hands-on learners unless I supplemented a lot (and most teachers
don't do that). For kids that really did need more practice &
reinforcement w/ basic skills, I'd do it.
*******
I am a fourth grade teacher in rural Honea Path South Carolina. I have
taught
in a low economic and rural area in the past, before moving to the school I
am
at now. I do not use Saxon math in my present district, but have used it at
my
old school. Test scores were the major issue. They were LOW... Saxon math
was
used as a supplement to the regular math. Our curriculum cooridinator did
not
feel that saxon was high level thinking enough on its own. I tend to
agree.
It seems to focus on more basic math skills (or the years I used it, it
was).
Some of the positives of it is the way it spirals the skills. Each day you
begin with meeting at the calendar. The skills covered during this time
spiral
to cover previously taught skills. The worksheets come pre-run. It is a
job
to organize them into folders. There is one sheet for practice together and
another for homework. From my experience it is a skill builder. It may
have
changed within the last couple of years. But when we researched it, the
main
fault was alone the questions were not high level. It is great to go along
with traditional math series
**********
we use Saxon Phonics at our school. There are some teachers who choose not
to use the program, but the majority do and love it.
********
, I have used both Saxon Math and Saxon Phonics as a classroom
teacher.
Math Pros: Systematic (spiraling curriculum); lots of review; the
worksheets provide plenty of practice and are not cluttered with large,
colorful, and sometimes distracting graphics; substitute teachers love
the scripted format (although teachers seldom follow it to a "T");
worksheets have a homework side.
Math Cons: The worksheet folders are a bit of a bother until you get a
"system" down for handling them, and refilling them at the beginning of
the year is a bother. Not all of the skills may be covered by "testing
time" in the spring--but then that's normal for most math
curriculum--and Saxon math does not allow for jumping around in the
curriculum in order to cover all those skills. Wise teachers will try
to cover those skills in mini-lessons during the year in order to
prepare for those lovely standardized tests.
Personally, I really like Saxon Math and think it's a good choice. I
have not found any math program that is absolutely comprehensive, but
Saxon comes close. I was on our county math adoption committee last
year, and we used the Georgia Math QCCs to compare and evaluate
curriculum from about a dozen publishers. Saxon and Sadlier-Oxford came
out on top for coverage. As with any curriculum, teachers sometimes
dislike change, and it may take a year or two for them to adjust their
teaching style and to learn when and where to supplement the math
curriculum.
Phonics Pros: Heavy duty phonics program; systematic coverage of phonics
and spelling rules.
Phonics Cons: Time consuming (allow at least one hour per day); can be
boring for some students and overwhelming for others; same worksheet
folder system as Saxon math; difficult for substitutes to teach--even
with scripted lessons.
Having said all that about the Saxon Phonics program, I want to add that
two years ago I had average and gifted students who absolutely "flew"
with the program. It was awesome to see how much they learned! A group
of teachers from a school in a neighboring system came and observed my
kids, and they were astonished to see what these students knew. Then,
last year, I had a class of average to below average (struggling)
students. It was a totally different situation. I had to reduce the time
and modify the lessons to accommodate this class. There was no way we
were going to be able to follow the program as it was designed. I think
Saxon phonics is good, but perhaps it is more suited for an academically
strong school. There are other phonics programs that may be more useful
in a school with a high proportion of struggling students. Johnny Can
Spell is a phonics/spelling/penmanship program that we used in Texas.
It is a good program, too. I think it takes about 30-45 minutes a day,
does not require consumables, and does not focus on as many "rules" as
the Saxon program. I think this program is a bit easier to use. You can
find info on this phonics program at
http://www.nine-enterprises.com/nine/wha00.asp . Another program I used
in Tennessee is Sing, Spell, Read, Write. This one incorporates singing
with the teaching of the phonics. More fun than the other programs and
not as "deep" http://www.bravewc.com/ssrw/sing.html .
********
Pros
-my son's middle school scored 20th highest in the entire state on 6th grade
math-and we're not in a wealthy school district
-skills are used over and over and over again in each lesson. It seems that
every night my daughter has multiplication, fractions, percent, money
problems, etc. in the assignment. After a while, these problems don't phase
them at all.
-easy to follow. I think the pattern is always 5 lessons and then an
assessment.
-in lower grades, class does one side of the assignment together, then the
reverse side with VERY similar problems for homework. It was easy to follow
as a parent.
Cons
-the book is very boring looking-all black and white. However, seeing some
of the overdone "rainforest algebra" books like my school uses, I can see
how
some students might better be able to concentrate with Saxon.
-many teachers feel the need to supplement to include a little more
creativity/hands on activities. I do not know the extent that manipulatives
are included.
I do not know many of the first-person teaching aspects, but I would be glad
to try to answer any questions.
*********
Before becoming a librarian I taught 6th grade math
and Saxon was "part" of our teaching tools. It was
used as a warmup activity daily. The strength of it
lies in the spiraling-it starts out simple and builds
with lots of repetition built in. Each day one new
skill was taught and 25 problems are given for
practice. Our math teachers would give students about
10 min. to start work on the practice problems and
then complete for homework. One thing that must be
done is grading immediately because if a student is
missing a certain kind of problem, the teacher needs
to correct it with the student quickly or it becomes a
habit due to the repititous nature of the program. All
of our teachers loved the program and felt it
addresses the needs of students who may gave gaps in
learning. However, it was not enough to stand alone as
it did not address all of the curriculum that we are
required to cover.
************
Tracy Taylor, LMS
Hickman Co. Elem. School
416 McMorris St
Clinton KY 42031
270-653-4067
ttaylor@hickman.k12.ky.us
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=
All postings to LM_NET are protected under copyright law.
To quit LM_NET (or set-reset NOMAIL or DIGEST, etc.) send email to:
listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER:
1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL or 3) SET LM_NET DIGEST
4) SET LM_NET MAIL * Please allow for confirmation from Listserv.
For LM_NET Help see: http://ericir.syr.edu/lm_net/
Archives: http://askeric.org/Virtual/Listserv_Archives/LM_NET.shtml
See also EL-Announce for announcements from library media vendors:
http://www.mindspring.com/~el-announce/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=
LM_NET
Mailing List Home