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This battle is just like any other battle --- people on both sides think they are rigth We see it everyday in our court systems - political systems, - You may think it is a waste of time and money -- others think it is great We will never have one right way -- Everyone will fight for their opinion and we will end up with something in the middle. paula "Brisco, Shonda" <briscos@TRINITYVALLEYSCHOOL.ORG> wrote: I've tried to explain to some that filtering isn't working--and it's costing us in time, money, and resources. Yet we continue to pump more and more money into technology (which usually means more and more computers are placed in the classrooms to be used by teachers and students who either can't figure out how to do effective research or become frustrated with the continual blocking of valid resources). This is a waste of both time and money. It's like buying a Hummer and taking the wheels off....we can start the engine, we can listen to the radio, and we can exclaim how wonderful it looks in front of our house....but we can't get anywhere with it. Shonda Brisco, MLIS Trinity Valley MS / US Librarian Trinity Valley School Fort Worth, TX 76132 817-321-0100 ext. 410 briscos@trinityvalleyschool.org "Those who have the highest expectations for the web in terms of student research, are those who work with it, and students, the least." -- LM_NET librarian ________________________________ From: School Library Media & Network Communications on behalf of Paula Yohe Sent: Thu 3/24/2005 5:59 PM To: LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: Re: [LM_NET] Filtering Question I agree 100% -- too many school districts have let techies who know nothing about instruction run the show but we have to work on this -- i just wish we as a profession wouldn't have been so negative on filtering -- the way it came across to many administrators and techs was that we would allow access to any material like porn to kids --- so we were ignored -- i have learned over the years -- you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar and unfortunately with filtering we are like vinegar to tech folks and alot of administrators -- sometimes you have to concede the battle to win the war - i really think instead of saying filtering doesn't work -- or this is stupid -- we need to be more proactive with the companies that are deciding what is filtered or not -- think about how you approached the tech folks -- they have pressure as well -- now think about the most foolish question you get during the day -- you are thinking to yourself -- good grief why am i doing this that is so unimportant to what i need to be doing -- that is how alot of tech folks think -- there are plenty of great sites out there -- what's the big deal -- i have more important things to do -- i have a server down -- so how important is that request when you only have a few folks to get things down???? does this sound familiar -- don't we say the same thing??? When is the last time anyone sent a thank you note when the technology staff installed a computer or fixed something for you --- Thanks goes a long way! Instead of telling each other about about how bad filtering is -- and how it doesn't work -- and sending articles,etc out to newspapers and magazines - we need to use a different approach -- Do I like filtering -- no -- but in my opinion -- filtering isn't going anywhere -- the tech people are not going anywhere - the administrators and teachers aren't going anywhere --- but are we going to have libraries and librarians --- i keep hearing about job cuts - a move back to fixed scheduling -- giving library grades! - the Internet instead of libraries We need to work with the companies -- I will say this -- I am not happy with the product I am using -- however -- when I talked with the sales rep last year -- they wanted input --- I gave it to them -- and they were thrilled -- positive instead of negative. food for thought - we all need to think about Paula "Brisco, Shonda" wrote: I believe some of the problems that libraries have with technology and technology departments involves the lack of professional respect that many librarians receive from most of their school's technology departments / administrators. Paula is both the librarian and the technology director which allows her to see both sides of the issue; however, when a technology department director is not involved in classroom education or library instruction, they perceive their duty as "restricting all improper sites / activities" without regard to the value of the information that is being denied. One of the most frustrating things as a librarian is trying to teach students and teachers how to utilize information effectively and then being treated like a 13-year old when you have to explain to technology people and administrators why accessing sites and information is important. Rather than allowing librarians the opportunity to be involved in the decision making process (since we make the major decisions on what will be placed within our libraries based upon our professional experiences and education), many of us are excluded from technology committees or meetings that involved educational instruction through technology / Internet. If administrators are not tech-savvy or if they do not understand the issues involved in the use of technology / Internet instruction within the classroom, most will allow their technology departments to administer judgment over what should or shouldn't be used by teachers and students, and allow them to create restriction policies within the schools. Sometimes this results in one person making educational decisions about what is appropriate, proper, and important for the entire school district to use---frustrating teachers, students, and librarians and resulting in the least effective use of technology. While we, as librarians, might want to be more involved in this area, the reality is that we cannot do our jobs now (without assistance--which many of us don't have) AND be involved in technology management issues. I do believe, however, that librarians should attend technology committee meetings and be involved in the selection of educational software, online databases, and Internet filtering for the schools. As the professionals with the most experience in locating and reviewing educational materials, it is important that administrators and technology department heads be reminded of our qualifications and our value to the overall educational environment. It should be a team effort...unfortunately in many schools, the team has benched one their MVPs. (Sorry for the b-ball reference....March Madness, you know.--- Go Pokes! --Oklahoma State!) Shonda Brisco, MLIS Trinity Valley MS / US Librarian Trinity Valley School Fort Worth, TX 76132 817-321-0100 ext. 410 briscos@trinityvalleyschool.org "Those who have the highest expectations for the web in terms of student research, are those who work with it, and students, the least." -- LM_NET librarian ________________________________ From: School Library Media & Network Communications on behalf of Paula Yohe Sent: Wed 3/23/2005 9:05 PM To: LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: Re: [LM_NET] Filtering Question I will jump in on this discussion because i think it is a valid one -- I am a media specialist who is now the Director of Technology so I have the pserpective from both sides of this issue before i say anything -- i block nothing for teachers except the category of explicit pornography becasue of CIPA -- -- For students as few catgeogries as possible -- explict sex categories -- personal web-based email - chat rooms --Why -- we provide email accounts for students that are accessible at home and at school -- - we do not allow home personal email account access for students - we also provide forums for students to post information and discussions I unblock virutally anything a teacher requests - if the web address looks strange - i look at it and if there is something that looks questionable -- i let someone else decide (only had this happen one time in the last 7 years) Do I like the system I have no -- I am changing again over the summer -- this will be the third filtering system -- So here goes -- 1. Blocking email - you get complaints from staff that they are getting inappropriate email -- why am i not blocking them? or you get complaints from another group that email is being blocked --- If users get a virus from an email -- they complain that you should have been proactive and had this blocked -- never mind that there are guidelines and suggestions posted -- 2. blocking websites -- since i block very few -- i get complaints from teachers that they are searching and all of a sudden they get something they think is porn and then I get why wasn't this blocked --- a student may see it 3. Perception of media specialists by alot of tech folks --- unsupportive - hard to deal with -- would allow kids access to anything they want including pornography -- too liberal -- 4. Tech folks -- overworked -- not enough staff -- managing and maintaining computers, email, viruses, fixing computers, printers, software installs, software porblems, etc. they are going for the quick fix to make their lives easier and in the pursuit of keeping it all running 5. Some teachers and staff abuse the system -- nothing new here -- but how many times have all of us put procedures into place becasue we had a problem with one or two users ---and the complaints came in -- I have seen this not just in media centers but in any issue -- just look at the headlines -- lawmakers do it almost every day -- 6. Acceptable Use Policy -- great in theory -- but that doens't work when mom comes to call --- or a student is disciplined -- the little darlings are quick 7. Since my control is so slack -- the keybpoarding teachers complain -- can i just turn off access to the Internet -- the kids download so much stuff they mess up the machines -- so they can't teach -- kids are too quick -- they have 25 kids in a room -- they can't check every computer during the four minutes between classes 8. My control is so slack -- that we are constantly dealing with Spyware - ADware -- popups -- then the complaints come in -- with over 1500 computers and two folks to fix everything -- it take some time to get to them -- and tell them to use Spyware themsleves -- some try -- but we have found that we end up running three or four spyware adware programs -- sometimes it is juts quicker to reimage the entire machine. 9. We as media specialsists should have gotten on the phone and had these filtering companies do what we wanted -- not what they wanted -- as a group we opposed filtering -- and do I think it works personally not very well -- Is it going anywhere? No -- so we need to find out what filtering software is being used in your school or dsitrct - and start emailing these companies --- Paula Robert Eiffert wrote: Somewhere along the line, how tech depts have taken the lead on many issues (filtering, login processes, webpage dev or constraints, software selection, webusability) that really are decisions that should be being made on a pedagogic basis would be really a good discussion. Take a look at: Internet Access & Filtering Issues - School of Library & Information Science Indiana University Purdue - online (http://eduscapes.com/sms/filtering.html) Also (and probably a bit closer to what you are dealing with) Just Give It to Me Straight: A Case Against Filtering the Internet - Phi Delta Kappen (http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/k0405cal.htm) Especially look at Reason 2: Filtering Is Anti-Educational From a public library POV : Filtering is a Collection Development Issue (http://webpages.charter.net/tomeboy/filters.html) -- Robert Eiffert, Librarian Pacific MS Vancouver, WA pac.egreen.wednet.edu/library beiffert.net furl.net/members/reiffert bloglines.com/blog/reiffert Kathy Ofsharick wrote: > Sorry to be late commenting on this, but this is something which I find also find >frustrating. Our computers were formerly filtered by our Intermediate Unit, and >although there times that I couldn't get to something I wanted to look at to see >if it was appropriate, on the whole I could get where I needed to go. Within the >last few months our (controlling) tech person has installed his own filter, which >doesn't necessarily look for personal email, but prevents the staff from viewing >most of the sites we need to get to. > > To access something we feel we need, we must submit the site address to the >building principal (who is unable to turn on his own computer), who then decides >whether to submit it for unblocking. I'm still wavering between boycotting >computer use altogether with students (not too difficult, since the library >computers are so slow), or swamping them daily with unblocking requests. Of the >sites I submitted last week, the only one he unblocked was Eric Carle's. We can't >get to anything that's classified as a personal web page, and most things I want >are blocked as Shopping/Merchandising, including every publisher's site or catalog >that I frequently used, which also contain much biographical info on children's >authors. These he refuses to unblock because "we aren't supposed to be shopping at >school". I feel like submitting a bill for the increased Internet time I'm using >at home. The blocked sites are announced in huge black letters as "FORBIDDEN", >along with the reason, w hich would be a little funny if it weren't so constantly inconvenient. My favorite are the links to library jokes or cartoons from LM_NET, which are FORBIDDEN: HUMOR. Wouldn't want any of that to leak through, now would we? -------------------------------------------------------------------- All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. LM_NET Help & Information: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ Archive: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/archive/ EL-Announce with LM_NET Select: http://elann.biglist.com/el-announce/ LM_NET Supporters: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ven.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paula Yohe Director Of Technology/Library Media Center Dillon School District Two 405 West Washington Street Dillon, SC 29536 Phone: 843-841-3604 Fax:843-774-1214 paula_yohe@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! -------------------------------------------------------------------- All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. LM_NET Help & Information: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ Archive: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/archive/ EL-Announce with LM_NET Select: http://elann.biglist.com/el-announce/ LM_NET Supporters: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ven.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paula Yohe Director Of Technology/Library Media Center Dillon School District Two 405 West Washington Street Dillon, SC 29536 Phone: 843-841-3604 Fax:843-774-1214 paula_yohe@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! -------------------------------------------------------------------- All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. LM_NET Help & Information: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ Archive: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/archive/ EL-Announce with LM_NET Select: http://elann.biglist.com/el-announce/ LM_NET Supporters: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ven.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. LM_NET Help & Information: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ Archive: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/archive/ EL-Announce with LM_NET Select: http://elann.biglist.com/el-announce/ LM_NET Supporters: http://www.eduref.org/lm_net/ven.html -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paula Yohe Director Of Technology/Library Media Center Dillon School District Two 405 West Washington Street Dillon, SC 29536 Phone: 843-841-3604 Fax:843-774-1214 paula_yohe@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. To change your LM_NET status, e-mail to: listserv@listserv.syr.edu In the message write EITHER: 1) SIGNOFF LM_NET 2) SET LM_NET NOMAIL 3) SET LM_NET MAIL 4) SET LM_NET DIGEST * Allow for confirmation. 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