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Here is a compilation of the emails sent to me. I'm posting them at the request of many of you. Laptop & Desktops All of the following are unedited emails sent to me when I posted a question asking if secondary librarians had experience with mobile laptop units in the library, not the classroom. The results came from two library LIST-SERVS: LM-NET (17,000 members) and HSLC/ACCESS (over 1000 librarians from PA only). I have sent you every email I received so you know that I did not select emails to skew the perception. The overwhelming majority of librarians who responded to me do not prefer the mobile laptop. The following were the most frequent complaints: · Battery failure and replacement cost · Slower access to both the network and internet · Time needed for retrieving and storing units each period · Wear and tear Librarians who were content with the laptops usually also had desktops in the same room. To gain local input, I personally contacted Bethel Park HS Library and Fox Chapel HS Library as they were said to have mobile library units. BPHS Library does not use them, and their librarian is unaware of any BP high school teacher using them, although the BP Tech Director used the mobile units at his previous school. FCHS Library uses mobile units in combination with desktops. You can read the comments from their librarian below. Canon-Mac’s tech department has not been pleased with the laptop performance in their high school. McGuffey HS uses them in combination with desktops and finds it helpful to have the laptops to supplement their desktops. You can see that some of the comments, particularly the negative ones, were quite emphatic. Terry Comments IMHO, run, don't walk, far, far away from laptop land. That is all I have in my new library and I HATE it. I spend half my life taking out and putting away and keeping track of who was using what. If you don't have a member of the library staff "standing guard" the wires get crossed, computers are stowed when they haven't been shut down (then they don't charge), cart keys are lost, etc. It is a friggin' nightmare. Because laptops are more fragile, we have had a huge issue with students popping the keys off. I thought that might just be a jhs issue, but our tech high school also has the same problem. The wireless access points don't always work well so occasionally I will have a class where only half the students can log on. Our tech dept claims it is a hardware malfunction and that there is nothing they can do. If you have back-to-back classes throughout the day, the batteries die and I don't have enough spares to swap out the entire set. We have also had students steal the network cards, scratch the screens, and other forms of damage that I don't have at my other site with desktops. I would gladly trade 2 for 1 for some old, sturdy, reliable desktops. Be prepared for a nightmare - ask for an aid just for the cart * no adequate charging time - not a good move - laptops are fragile ______________________________ We used to have laptop carts. We don't anymore. Our techs grew to hate them. Problems: The batteries didn't keep enough charge for all day use like your library. I saw one school that used two batteries in a laptop, but they were still in a classroom, not library. After a year, the batteries needed replaced - $$$$ The kids delighted in picking the keys off. The kids tended to not plug them in. Do you have time to do it or constantly check? A few were dropped. Happens when you move them around. The laptops didn't hold up like a desktop does. After three years, many no longer worked. They cost much more than a desktop. We now have one lab. That's not good either. But I would definitely vote for keeping your desktops. Hi, We use two mobile carts of laptops both here in the library and on loan to the classrooms. This helps with crowding when people want to write papers after research or some students are faster and teachers are trying to keep a class together. We have 8 desktops and about 30 mobile laptops. The laptops are used here and loaned. The laptops experience more damage and sometimes there are fewer to loan. I'm not sure what else I can tell you. Teachers use them for Webquests, and internet research while in the library during their work time. This gives students without computers at home equal advantage to finish their work. If you have a specific questionor questions please let me know. ________________________________________________________________________ Don't do it! It takes SO much time and energy to get the laptops out of the cart and back in so they can re-charge for the next group. Then, you need to keep track of them. We only have about 650 students, but I have a very active library, and am always "flying" around the room trying to help everybody. It is very hard to keep track of things even with other teachers around. (They don't really have the same level of alertness as I do). I have no clerk or aide, but even when I did, the logistics of getting the laptops out, (I have each student sign them out one at a time so they are responsible for the one they sign out), is an almost impossible situation. You really have enough to do without having to go through that. Our periods are 44 minutes long; you will spend at least 10 minutes getting them out and then in again. And that is at the very least. Also, the issue of connectivity -- even with the best routers in the world you might have days or periods of time, when, for whatever reason, the connection is not there. You then have a bunch of students sitting around, unable to even log in. It's a PAIN! Sorry to be so negative, but it has not been easy for me. My situation has changed in that they bought me an additional 22 desktops, and took most of my laptops away. I now only have 6 laptops and rarely use them because of my new desktops, and the fact that many of the individual departments bought their own laptop carts. Security wise, although I am not by any means an expert, you really should have no problem with that if you have a good tech person. SO, there you have it. Rather long winded and perhaps confusing, but the bottom line is -- it is just too much for the two of you. Please contact me if you have any questions. ________________________________________________________ The wear and tear on the batteries is awful and expensive. We had Macs and Pc is our district. They were wireless and did take lots of start up time. ______________________________________________________ Terry -- We've used a cart in our high school library for 5 years now. We have a student body of 1400 students in a 5 period block scheduled day. There is one librarian and an aide (with additional student help occassionally). One thing I would suggest is to keep maybe 4 or 5 desktops for those students who rush in to print off something at the last minute. I did that and saved myself a lot of hassle with that configuration. One of the first things we did was barcode the laptops and put them on the automation system. Students must sign out the laptops to use for the period. It does take some time at the beginning of the period, but kids do get used to the procedure and it goes relatively quickly. Batteries are an issue by the end of the day, but if you can keep some computers charging all the time, it helps. We are wireless. I wouldn't do a cart unless you could be wireless. What's the point of the portability if you still have to wire up to be on the network? One of our issues was/is space. The laptops really took care of that problem for us. Rather than being tied to just a few desktops, we were able to offer whole classes access to computers all at once. HTH. Feel free to let me know if there is more information I can provide. Laptops are nice, but they are certainly not the answer in every situation!! _________________________________________________________________________ Terry, I would fight hard to keep your desktops. We have both. The only way that laptops really work is if they are wireless, other wise they are just modified desktops. Desktops are faster, especially if you have lots of machines on a wireless network trying to use the Internet, especially downloading or streaming anything. The desktops are usually cheaper and hold up better. You are also correct about the time it takes to check out the laptops, unless that is something that your student aides can do. I work in a wireless building; our freshman and sophomores all have their own laptops and there are times during the day when using them is painful because the Internet is so slow. I've had lots of experience with both, have both, and use both. Let me know if you have any other questions. We have a mobile lab with 20 wi-fi laptops. It's a pain. We keep it charging at night, but when a teacher checks it out they check it out for the day not the period. It's very heavy and hard to push around. Mobile is laughable. It also keeps losing charge so the teacher who uses it has to be trained how to go in and change the setting. Most only take it out once and decide it's too much of a hassle. Right now we have a science teacher who is using it almost continuously though. So we are leaving it in his room. We dont use them as our sole machines at my middle school but let me tell you I think they are horrible. We have two carts (about30) laptops. They NEVER work right, no one checks them out because of the terrible experiences they have had with them. They dont log it right, they are in poor condition, you can never get online and you wait forever for them to boot up and get online if they ever do. The MUST be charged every night. So if you even forget one time or a custodian pulls the plug to vaccuum etc. you now have 0 computers for the next day. I would never give up the security of desktops. If your tech guy is bent on them then do what we do and get mobile carts for checkout use in the classroom, keep your desktops!!!!! and see how it goes. Really DONT do it. Terry, Our technology directors must attend the same conferences! There is a growing trend in Virginia Beach to phase out desktop computers in favor of laptop carts. We currently have 14 desktop computers and one laptop cart that holds 20 computers in my library. The students will pick the desktop computers over the laptops because the wireless laptops are slow. Other issues include the amount of time to set them up, security, and batteries that don't hold a charge for a full day. It may be an IT issue but the laptops frequently have problems. It irks me that our district feels the need to have desktop computers exclusively for the computer labs but not the library media centers. More and more of our instruction includes computers. We are also open before and after school while the computer labs are not. The main reason for purchasing the laptops in my district is that they are used during testing. When this happens all of the laptops are pulled and I am down to 14 computers again. I see the laptop carts as a supplement. They are nice to use in the classroom and to accommodate additional users during testing. I don't think that they should be a substitute for desktop computers in computer labs and libraries where the computers are used all day long. ________________________________________________ Terry, In my library I inherited a brand new $30,000 laptop cart containing 30 laptops that had been ordered by the previous librarian out of the library budget. I had teachers of 5-12 grades "sign out" the cart (but the laptops could not leave the library) and it was often monopolized. Teachers did like it very much though and they would bring their entire class to teach a 50 min lesson utilizing the cart. Meanwhile K-4 classes would be being taught in the library and there was usually a lot of commotion centered around the laptop cart. The laptops were cumbersome to get out and set up, time consuming, and some were not always fully charged, ours were not hooked up to the library printer, so I was never sure where students were printing too when they were using them. I felt that they were very impractical for the elementary grades, and I never utilized them for these students. The younger kids didn't understand how to manipulate the "mouse" and I didn't have extra clickers to hook up to each one. As far as printing, I still had some desktops available and from these students could print. My thoughts- the idea behind the laptop cart is that it should be mobile. When tied to the library, I found that the time spent with the laptops was unproductive. I also had a more difficult time trying to keep an eye on what students were viewing. So, in my library it didn't work, but our library schedule was also a monstrosity- 1,200 students, one tiny library and 8+ 45 min. classes a day along with the 5-12 grades coming in to use the laptops whenever. I did have some desktops available and these were what the students wanted to use mainly. I would suggest not being exclusively wireless- maybe keep some desktops available for those students who pop-in to print and for quick searches. I personally prefer good old fashioned desktops, they are in a fixed location, you can keep an eye on the students, and the students learn how to use the mouse, they are always "charged" and no one can easily steal them, I can easily set up each with a particular program for a lesson and I can wipe them down easily, I guess in a sense I felt I had better control when using desktops. I ended up gladly relinquishing the laptop cart to the high school so it could circulate among the classrooms, and made due with our desktops. I didn't like being the "scheduler" of the laptop cart and our library just couldn't handle the amount students. Yours may be a better set-up- Good luck! ____________________________________________________________________ Terry, We have used mobile laptop carts in the library for several years, in addition to the desktops. Some thoughts: Security is a BIG issue. Damage to the delicate laptops is not infrequent, and watching them for inappropriate sites is MUCH more difficult. We have had wireless cards walk out, and the eye on the CD drive is popable for the bored. Cord management is a nightmare. We have found the octopus analogy works best. Time constraints: moving them in and out of the carts is very time-consuming, hard on the back, and hard on the laptops. The students do like them better, but they get more easily frustrated by them since they can be slower and have less flexibility. They are harder to adapt for the handicapped and those needing modifications. Sunlight is difficult on the screens. Biggest issue: we lock our carts in a secure closet (since they are heavy to move, this is hard on the back). Another school in our district lacks this feature and they have had their carts pried open and several laptops stolen. Also, laptops are much more expensive and difficult to upgrade. They are also more expensive for the package generally. Overall, I still like having a cart or two for flexibility. We use them to fill in when a desktop is down or when a class is just too big. We use them when we are double-booked by putting a cart in another section for a different class. However, I feel they are a nightmare for regular use. A better answer is wireless desktops. There are ways to make your wireless network secure. He should look into it. Hope this helps. I am in a building that is less than 2 years old. We have a wireless network installed after the building was built. At my desk I can not always connect. We have discovered that programs move slower when you are on the wireless net work. Most of the laptop users have docking stations. Running the network cable through the docking station slows down SASI on the server. SASI is our big student accounting program, grades, attendance, schedules. We have discovered it is easier to run the 100' or cable instead of using wireless. Know this is not what you asked. There are ways to lock the laptop to the table. You can buy long lasting batteries. May 6 hrs. may be 8. When we built this building and bought new furniture. I specified that the desk tops should be flat to accommodate laptops. My Nephew who is dyslexic had one start to slide off on of the slant top desks. He got him a rubber mat to carry with him. But I learned. We are a small school using portable labtops as well as desktops (Kids always want to use the laptops while I prefer a desktop). We have several wireless airports throughout the 2 bldgs. Kids are hard on laptops. They can be set up to restrict what the kids can get into, but they seem to be smart. You can get the same technology on them. Problems develop with laptops the more students that use them. ______________________________________________________________________ Terry, One of the concerns of using a mobile laptop computer lab will be the battery recharge. If they are used every period they will completely discharge the battery without enough time to recharge unless you use them plugged into an outlet. This basically defeats the purpose of a laptop, so try to keep those desktop units. (I had a mobile unit in the library which was used by various classes. If it was used too many periods a day, the laptops could not recharge between uses and it caused many problems when the computer died in the middle of a students typing.) Laptops were designed for people who travel a lot. If the computers in your library are used often you should opt to keep the desktop units. Laptop labs are great for floating from one classroom to another as needed. You should be aware that the batteries in laptops are only good for a couple of hours then need to be recharged or connected to a power supply--at least that was my experience. Buy power strips to use with the labtop lab if you plan to use them all day. For the cost, the standard desktops are a better buy and more practical for daily use. I have used a laptop lab to supplement the number of desktops in our media center when I needed to have more than one class working at the same time and the desktops load quicker and are less hassle--and I am in a school where I could leave them out all day or for a week at a time as needed. Hi Terry We have a cart of laptops in the library (24). We have had this for a number of years, and it works well. The laptops one can buy now rarely need battery changes, and we have a number of charger cords for those that are low on batteries. You will need some training for students at first; they love to put them in the cart without plugging them back in, but each term I appoint two monitors from each class to check this has been done. Laptops make group work fun - students can stretch out on the floor, or they work in the stacks. If you haven't already, make sure food and drink is banned. However, when I clean ours I still find cookie crumbs under the keyboard... I would recommend you go for a wireless hub, rather than full wireless, because otherwise your laptops will end up all over the building. If they only work in the library, people won't try to take them out to use elsewhere. Before and after school, and at lunchtime, users can come in, help themselves to a laptop and start working. I am in a Grade 1-12 school - all grades use them. We do also have two desktops in the library so people can run in and check their email. We have HP laptops we have a three year warranty; this covers us for replacements etc. In my four years here I've only had one disaster * one of my grade 11 students dropped one on the floor. I hope this helps! Let me know if I can answer any further questions, or if you want to see a photo of our set-up. I don't have my camera today, but can bring it on Monday. Not recommended. Too much time lost in setting up and batteries going dead and network cards getting "lost", etc., etc. Hi, Terry. We are a campus with students in 9-12 grades. We have about 1,000 students. We have both laptops and desktops. We have 36 desktop computers and then a cart of 30. We use them all of the time. Good things: Less space allocated, can use the usual desktop area for book shelves or student work tables. I have more computers available for student use. Students like laptops. Bad Things: If being used extensively during the day you run out of battery power. Trying to re-charge between classes isn't always enough time. It is very time consuming putting them away and plugging them into the power charger. Occasionally you drop one. Some days the wireless connection is really jammed up and it slows down your access. Students can have multiple printer options (I don't know why. They don't on our desktop computers. Maybe it's a wireless thing or a tech department thing) and they wind up printing all over our building. Our kids mess with the screens and stick their fingers in them. In a nut shell, I will take laptops because we just don't have enough computers without them and don't have space to add more computers. ________________________________________________________________________ Terry, this sounds like a nightmare to me. I would think it would take constant supervision to make this work, and even then, there is a good possibility of theft. Additionally, as the laptops are used a lot through time, the batteries will not hold a charge for as long. You'd have to have a system of check-out that would allow ample charge-time for each computer,between uses. Then there's the cute little tricks some students like to do... switching the keys around, or playing games so hard that the arrow keys stop working. Laptops aren't as sturdy as desktop models. If your district has the money and the will to replace them annually or biannually that's one thing, but if your district expects them to last as long as a desktop model... they're in for a lot of repair bills. This is my two cents, off the top of my head. Hopefully you've heard from others! Will you post a Hit? The BIGGEST concern will be re-charging the batteries, or getting everybody plugged in. As time goes on, a battery will last maybe 30 minutes and then need to be re-charged which can take several hours. The only advantage of a laptop lab is portability. If you want computer that will be used in the library every day then you want desktops. Desktops are cheaper for the same speed, memory, graphics, etc. Desktops also last longer and are easier to service. In fact laptops are darned near impossible to fix on site. You are also right about set-up time and battery problems. We like having laptops but I would never give up my desktop lab for them. It sounds like your tech director intends on having the laptops be used in other locations as well. How will classes do research in the library if the computers are down the hall? You shouldn't have laptops instead of desktops, you should have them in addition to a fixed lab. ________________________________________________________________________ We do not use laptops for our workstations in the Library. However, I do have experience with both laptops and desktops - Library of desktops, 2 Academic computer labs with desktops, 5 rolling labs of laptops. 1. My laptop batteries are running $132 or more each. 2. Batteries don't last all day - so you have to plug in or have somewhere to recharge. 3. Laptop carts aren't designed to allow you to easily remove the power supply - I've also discovered that laptops get damaged (sometimes even dropped) as they are put in and pulled out of the carts. 4. Laptops are more proprietary to repair - parts are not as generic or as easily upgraded as on a desktop. 5. Laptops have fewer USB ports - new models do not have parallel ports for printers. 6. Laptops do not have floppy drives (may not be an issue for your school) but you can get them in a desktop, if you ask. 7. No problems with laptops "walking off" when used in the Library or classrooms - only two disappeared (over last 3 years) that were being used as teacher projector units during summer school while construction was in progress. 8. Cable security locks are available for laptops. 9. Laptops are meant to be mobile - leaving them on tables all day defeats the purpose they were built for - so does having to keep a network cable plugged up to it all the time. 10. Desktops have separate monitors and keyboards that can easily be replaced if they go bad. 11. Wireless technology is not great - we still have problems with users being "dropped" - security should not be a problem (provided your tech people know how to set up a secure network that requires a code to be set in the laptop). 12. cost wise, you get more desktop for the money - you pay for the portability of a laptop. Hope this helps. ________________________________________________________________________ We do not use the laptops exclusively, and I don't think I'd like to be doing so. Our wireless network is not seamless, so we have connection issues from time-to-time. I do like having them, however, and I like the flexibility of their not being hard wired. We have barcoded & numbered all the laptops and, for in-library use, we check them out just as we would check out a book. Then at the end of the period, we check them back in. It is time consuming to unplug laptops and check them out individually, but as far as I'm concerned, there is no other way. When the carts are checked out to classrooms, there is a sign-out sheet that travels with the cart & students sign their name beside the number of the computer they're using. It isn't foolproof, but most teachers support it. (Of course, some don't & we shudder every time they reserve the laptops...) But, back to in-library use: we always check them out to the student; we require that they are using them ON THE TABLE--not the floor, their laps, etc.; and require headphones if they're listening to music. This year we have run into increasing demand from students in ISS--in-school suspension. I've gotten some reconsideration from our administration: I can limit the time--one hour--I don't have to let an ISS student keep a laptop all day; I can require that a teacher has requested one for the particular assignment. We have twice had the laptop left in the UNLOCKED ISS room overnight. (My aide forgot that someone had one) and many times the student spends the day surfing...yes, our ISS teachers aren't as strict as I would be... :) I have seen computer labs with laptops hard-wired, but I think that overrides the reasons to have the laptops anyways. Hope this helps Terry, I sometimes use a moble laptop unit and I do not like it. I would rather use my desktops. Terry I have both setups in my middle school library - 30 desktops and a 25 laptop portable lab. GOOD POINTS The labs are great when two classes come in and need computers for all students in class for research. I use the labs in my library science class to learn how to research on five projects and on using the databases. The students are put in groups of three and given four page assignments. They must locate the requested infomation using the laptops at their tables. Students love the laptops. I use the laptops when the desktop lab is in use by another teacher. My teachers are requesting the laptops in their room. Started with one teacher and escalated. Slight problem- I have to go to the class and set up the laptops for use and I have to quickly show the teachers how the portable lab works. Gets better as the teachers use the lab more. BAD POINTS Wireless laptops are a little slower than wired desktops. Individual laptops may be problematic. (not booting, not connecting to the Internet, etc.) Big problem - My laptop case was unplugged during the summer and the batteries for al computers were drained. This is bad because the batteries now only have a half life so they show "low battery" in 1 1/2 hours instead of 3. My batteries will have to be replaced or I will need plugs to use. EVEN WITH THESE PROBLEMS, I GET A LOT OF USE OUT OF THE LAPTOPS Dear Terry, I can tell you that our IT department does not like the mobile units. We had a cart that was used in a lab and it did not work out well. With the turnover of classes, the batteries were never fully charged. During class, the laptops would slowly fade and by the end of the day....Eventually the batteries held only about 2 hours of charge. It proved to be a headache for the teachers and students. Terry, I just received a wireless mobile lab unit with 23 laptops. All of my programs are on them. This wireless lab is available only to students in the library; it will not be sent to classrooms, other than the Library Classroom. I have used them several times-in the library and the library classroom. I leave the unit connected in my magazine room and students may take the laptops to any area of the library to use them. I try to schedule the library classroom for classes, but sometimes we use them at the library tables. There is a printer with the unit, however, after 2 weeks, we ran out of toner and the district did not have any to replace it, so it is being ordered! I have 20 other computers in the library (usually 17 working) and it is nice to have these available to students when all the others are being used. Just a little more effort on my part to keep track of them. Of course, students have no trouble using them, they teach me. Just remember to order extra toner if you get a new printer! (Grades 6-12 may use them. Hope this helps. Hello, The mobile unit is not part of the library (thank goodness). I would have storage/security issues with that. The mobile unit bounces around a bit - mostly stays with the one teacher that uses it the most. If you go with a mobile unit, have an independent printer mounted on it. We have one and this has worked well. I have 17 desk top units in the library. Ms.Terry Morriston, Librarian Peters Twp HS 264 E McMurray Rd McMurray PA 15317 724/941-6250 x5230 morristont@pt-sd.org DISCLAIMER: This email is for the intended recipient only and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient and/or have received this email in error, please advise the sender and delete this message, including any attachments, immediately. Any unauthorized or improper disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this email and any attached documents is prohibited. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note: All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. You can prevent most e-mail filters from deleting LM_NET postings by adding LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU to your e-mail address book. 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