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I agree with you on many of these points....and these questions would
need to be answered if a library decided to do away with Dewey. But
it's not impossible. All I'm saying is: Dewey doesn't NEED to be
there. There are other ways of organzing information and making it
accessible. If Barnes and Noble and Borders can do it, then a library
can too. All you need is a terminal set up where customers can search
for what they want, find the right section, and grab the book.

Everyone is saying that libraries shouldn't change to be more like
bookstores, that bookstores are hard to use, etc....but people are
going to bookstores, not libraries (myself included)--and there's a
reason for that.

I'm sorry if I've cluttered your inboxes, everyone. Thanks for helping
me really think about this issue; I think it's fascinatng. I'll be
very curious to see what happens in Arizona.

Sarah

On 6/1/07, Kathryn Frech <kfrech@syrdiocese.org> wrote:
> sarah wrote:
>
> > > Actually, pretty much all the books about baseball ARE in one place...
> > > 796.357.
> >
> > I guess my point is--if all the baseball books are in the same place,
> > why have a Dewey number assigned to it? Why not just throw a
> > sign up there and call it a day? What's the difference?
>
> A few thoughts come to mind immediately:
>
> 1a. What about all the little subjects? The ones with only one book, or two?
> How many signs are we going to use, and how hard will it be to read all
> those signs?
>
> 1b. For that matter, isn't it more efficient to look up a subject in a catalog
> to see whether there is anything on it in the library rather than walking
> through all the shelves hoping that there's a sign showing there are books
> on that topic in such-and-such a place?
>
> 2. Should the patron have to walk through the library in order to close in
> on the right section and right sign? Isn't it simpler if they have an address
> (i.e., a Dewey or other classification number) that lets them go directly to
> the section, shelf, and book they want?
>
> 3. What do you do when your shelves move? Keep moving the signs?  Yes,
> all of us need to move signage when there is a significant change in locations,
> but if you're using a sign for each subject, you're going to be placing and
> replacing them constantly.
>
> 4. What about books with multiple subjects? A book on the physics of
> baseball may be wanted by those interested in baseball or in physics. It
> can only go in one place physically but at least using a catalog allows us
> to assign multiple subject headings and cross-references so that everyone
> can find the things they want without having to physically walk around the
> entire library scanning the shelves in case there might be something
> pertaining to what they're looking for.
>
> > > perhaps the librarian can get up and walk around
> > > the library to ask patrons if they need help locating materials.
> >
> > Right, this is exactly my point, too. So why bother with Dewey?
> > Helpful librarians are all you need.
>
> And when the helpful librarian is assisting someone else, wouldn't
> it be nice to be able to find your own materials, rather than having
> to wait for the expert to be available to aid you?
>
> One of my goals as a librarian is to empower my users, to let them
> be able to find the materials they need and have the confidence that
> they can use the system here or elsewhere. Yes, of course I will
> always be needed to help those who don't know where to look, or
> what they're looking for, or who need to define their subject, or who
> are using a particular tool for only the first (or sometimes the second
> or the third!) time. But surely the more the patrons can do on their
> own, the more confident they will feel in their own skills and the more
> comfortable they will in using the facility for whatever they need.
>
> Kathryn
> --
> Kathryn Frech
> Seton Catholic Central H.S.
> Binghamton, NY 13905
> http://www.setoncchs.com/library/
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> > "Tags" are also called "subject headings" in libraries....in the
> > online environment of an OPAC / online catalog, we also call them
> > "keywords."  "Tags" were invented to help organize resources online
> > such as photographs, blogs, wikis, etc., all of which is located
> > haphazardly on the Internet...also known as the "library with the
> > books scattered all over the floor."
>
> Yes, but when I think of tags, I think of making it possible for users
> to add tags--folksonomies, if you like that term. More and more
> libraries are adding this capability to their catalogs and I would bet
> my MLS that this is the future of cataloging. They allow users to
> think about books on their terms, not ours--the ability to add tags
> will create more access points and allow for the fact that subject
> headings can be pretty worthless sometimes.
>
> > Signage is also a great way to showcase materials and direct patrons
> > to areas of specific interest.  Adding genre labels to book spines
> > also helps patrons to immediately locate information on the shelves.
> > Turning books to face forward (their best side) rather than hiding
> > them on the shelves, also helps to showcase a specific area of the
> > library....Let's take the display options from the bookstores and not
> > the "wandering until I get frustrated" concept.  The main thing that
> > bookstores do that libraries don't....offer "customer service on the
> > floor!"  Sometimes we're too busy shelving books to stop and answer
> > reference questions or directional questions.  Be approachable...ask,
> > "Do you need help?" "Can I help?"  "Have you found everything that
> > you've come for?"  "Did you know.....that we have new books on...(name
> > the subject)...that we are offering a summer program on....(name the
> > program)....that we offer you to make suggestions for new
> > purchases....?"
>
> I agree! And all of these things, in my mind, reduce or eliminate the
> need for Dewey.
>
> > Other thoughts to consider..... what happens when you leave?  After
> > you've set-up the "new system" and the next librarian returns the
> > collection to the "standard system"....what happens to the students'
> > ability to locate materials in other libraries...in other
> > schools....at the university level....in the same school under a new
> > librarian?
>
> Of course, I see this as happening over the long haul, not just as a
> phase. I imagine more and more libraries will be following the Arizona
> library's example. And as I've written already in this thread, I don't
> think being able to use Dewey is crucial to being able to use other
> libraries; feeling comfortable in a library is.
>
> Sarah
>
> On 5/31/07, Shonda Brisco <sbrisco@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Not to "flame" or be disrespectful, but just an insight into this....
> >
>   There are also options called "displays" of specific
> > subjects that allow you to pull out books from both the fiction,
> > non-fiction, videos, and biographies to showcase in one area of the
> > library without disrupting the accessibility of the online catalog or
> > other's access.
> >
> > Librarians can also create bibliographies of books on specific
> > subjects and showcase them near the specific areas within the
> > library...or (gasp!) perhaps the librarian can get up and walk around
> > the library to ask patrons if they need help locating materials.
> > (This was a MANDATE in the academic libraries when we were responsible
> > for the reference desk.  Every 20 minutes we were required to move
> > from behind the reference desk and walk the floor to assist patrons.
> > Most of the time we received more questions once we made our intial
> > approach than if we had not spoken to individuals at all.  In fact, we
> > often ended up answering much more than the initial reference
> > question...and we always had "return visitors" who would seek us for
> > assistance!  I loved this concept because it allowed me to talk about
> > where items could be located each time without really "teaching a
> > lesson.")
> >
> > "Tags" are also called "subject headings" in libraries....in the
> > online environment of an OPAC / online catalog, we also call them
> > "keywords."  "Tags" were invented to help organize resources online
> > such as photographs, blogs, wikis, etc., all of which is located
> > haphazardly on the Internet...also known as the "library with the
> > books scattered all over the floor."
> >
> > Signage is also a great way to showcase materials and direct patrons
> > to areas of specific interest.  Adding genre labels to book spines
> > also helps patrons to immediately locate information on the shelves.
> > Turning books to face forward (their best side) rather than hiding
> > them on the shelves, also helps to showcase a specific area of the
> > library....Let's take the display options from the bookstores and not
> > the "wandering until I get frustrated" concept.  The main thing that
> > bookstores do that libraries don't....offer "customer service on the
> > floor!"  Sometimes we're too busy shelving books to stop and answer
> > reference questions or directional questions.  Be approachable...ask,
> > "Do you need help?" "Can I help?"  "Have you found everything that
> > you've come for?"  "Did you know.....that we have new books on...(name
> > the subject)...that we are offering a summer program on....(name the
> > program)....that we offer you to make suggestions for new
> > purchases....?"
> >
> > We CAN assist our patrons / students and show our collections while
> > retaining our systems of organization.  Whether it's DDC or LC, it's
> > better than trying to figure out something that isn't consistent
> > throughout the general organizational program called "the library."
> >
> > Other thoughts to consider..... what happens when you leave?  After
> > you've set-up the "new system" and the next librarian returns the
> > collection to the "standard system"....what happens to the students'
> > ability to locate materials in other libraries...in other
> > schools....at the university level....in the same school under a new
> > librarian?
> >
> > Consistency is the key....showcase your collection...be proud and
> > show-off what your library offers, but don't relinquish the standards
> > for a path of least resistance.  It's always THAT pathway that
> > requires the most work later.... as you (or those who follow) replace
> > the broken cobblestones of ignorance!
> >
> > As always...an opinion.
> >
> > ~Shonda
> >
> > --
> > Shonda Brisco, MLIS
> > Library Media / Technology Specialist
> > Digital Bookends wiki / blog:
> > http://digitalbookends.pbwiki.com <http://digitalbookends.pbwiki.com/>
> > http://shonda.edublogs.org/
> > sbrisco@gmail.com
> >
> > "Digital Resources" columnist
> > School Library Journal
> >
>
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