[LM_NET] HIT: Fairy tale vs. folktale elem lesson

[Melissa Byrd <mbyrd3@GMAIL.COM>]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my original question.  I also had
several requests for hits.  Here's the original question:
 "Does anyone have a good lesson or explanation of the difference
between fairy tales and folk tales.  I will post a HIT if there is
interest.  I checked the archives and didn't find anything.  I'm
trying to teach this to my 3rd graders.
Today, I started with fairy tales and told them that they usually
started with "once upon a time", ended with "happily ever after", had
magic in them and usually royalty (prince, princess, king, queen).
Then, I got to thinking:  is Goldilock and the 3 bears a fairy tale?
How about Little Red Riding Hood?  Neither of these contain the
characteristics I told them to look for and I always considered them
fairy tales.  Any help would be appreciated.  I feel I can't teach
this lesson until I understand it myself."

It seems that this is an ambiguous topic as I've received varying
responses.  Some consider fairy tales as a subgenre of folktales.  Others
see them both classified under folklore with different characteristics:
fairy tales must have magic and royalty in them to make them fairy tales,
folk tales have "ordinary" folks or animals, usually there's a journey and
they teach a lesson. The latter is how I'm going to teach this lesson since
this is the most common response I received.  Therefore, *Goldilocks*
and *Little
Red Riding Hood *will be classified as folk tales since they don't contain
magic or royalty.

Below is a list of responses.

Folk tales come from the "folk", sitting around the fireplace in the dark,
telling tales
 (Goldilocks, LRRH); they do have a country from which they come (3 Billy
Goats Gruff--Norway), you can learn the country's cultural ways with them
(people ate porridge, lived in cottages--3 Bears, were shepherds); fairy
tales have an author (Puss in Boots--Perrault, France). The Grimm Brothers
travelled around Germany to collect "folk tales". Perrault, Andersen are
fairy tale authors. African, Latin, Asian folktales are from different
countries and have no author, but they do have a traditional character
(Anansi, Juan Bobo).


Perhaps my website and links will help you.
http://www.websterschools.org/classrooms/state_library/genres.html#Folklore
http://www.websterschools.org/classrooms/state_library/folklore.html

A fairy tale is but one type of folk tale.  Fairy tales must have the
element of magic in order to be considered a fairy tale.  They usually also
have some sort of royalty aspects to them-castles, princesses, etc.  A few
other types of folk tales include: trickster (elements of tricking) and tall
tales (element of hyperbole).  I teach folk tales to 2nd gr.  We focus on a
diff. type for several weeks.  The culminating project is a tall tale story
each child writes about him/herself including an illustration.  I do this in
conjunction with the classroom teachers.  We use kidspiration, Word and
Powerpoint also.
Good luck!

I call Goldilock and Little red Folk Tales for the same reasons that you
mentioned.
I usually say:
Fairy Tale:
Problems are solved with Magic, Players are always Royalty
Folk Tale:
Problems are solved by using "smarts," Players are regular "folks" or
animals that act like people
Hope that helps

Goldilocks and Little Red Riding Hood are folk tales according to my
description.
I would tell the kids that folk tales have "ordinary folks" in them,
not royalty.  Also a folk tale is less likely to have magic.
It's not always a clear line, though!

Melissa,  I teach my 5th graders that a fairy tale is a kind of folk tale
 We go over  these types   fairy tales, tall tales, legends, pourquoi tales,
fables, beast tales, and cumulative tales, and then in 6th grade do a
mythology unit.
also I have copied below some definitions I found online that I use to
define these types
 Types of Folktales
 Cumulative Tales—tales that repeat actions, characters or speeches until a
climax is reached.
Gingerbread Boy, Pancake, Johnny Cake, Henny Penny, Why Mosquitoes Buzz in
People's Ears
Humorous Tales—tales that allow people to laugh at themselves as well as at
others.
Humor results from absurd situations or human foolishness resulting from
unwise decisions.
Peasant's Pea Patch, Mr. And Mrs. Vinegar, Fisherman and his Wife, The
Husband Who Has to Mind the House
Beast Tales—tales that involve animals are among the most universal.
Brer Rabbit, Anansi, Bremen Town Musicians, Three Billy Goats Gruff, Little
Red Hen, Little Red Riding Hood
Magic and Wonder Tales—contain some element of magic.
Cinderella, Lad Who Went to the North Wind, Fool of the World and the Flying
Ship, Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty
Pourquoi Tales—or "why" tales, answer a question or explain how animals,
plants, or humans were created and why they have certain characteristics.
Why the Possum's Tail is Bare and Other Native American Nature Tale, Toad is
the Uncle of Heaven
Realistic—realistic plot and involve people who could have existed
Dick Whittington and His Cat
These are just a few of the categories of folktales.
 I, too, have used the same sort of definition for fairy tale that you told
your kids.
The first picture in the powerpoint is our road to folk tale land that we
travel down as we begin the unit.
Hope this helps some.
 Here is an explanation  I just recently found
I will state clearly that fairy tales do not have to be stories about
fairies. Also, fairy tales are part of folklore, but folk tales are not
necessarily fairy tales. The simplest way to explain this is to think of
fairy tales as a subgenre of folklore along with myths and legends.

Try this website for a powerpoint (and others) which may be of some help
http://www.slideshare.net/bogeybear/slideshows

 I teach that Fairytales start with once upon a time or a long time ago, end
happily, have magic and royalty, often use the number 3, often have an
impossible task and a reward.  A folktale usually has that same beginning
and end, often uses the number 3, but usually a lesson is learned and there
is a journey of some kind.  I use the example of the 3 pigs, and to
emphasize that these are old stories where we don't' know the original
author, I explain there was probably a grandma sitting around the fire
(before tv, video, even books) a long time ago who probably thought her
grandkids hadn't been very good helpers that day, so she made up a story
about these 3 pigs who go off on their own (journey) and the first two lazy
ones get their houses blown down, and the third one who does his "best work"
is the only one whose house is standing at the end of the day.  Lesson:  do
your best work!  I use Rumplestiltskin for fairytales b/c if you tell boys
you are going to read a fairy tale, they usually groan.  I love Red Riding
Hood for folktales, b/c there are so many great versions of it, so we
usually read several and compare and vote for our favorites.
Good luck!

I don't have a whole lesson about this, but I do a Japanese folk tale unit
with my 4th grade.  In my introduction to that I talk about how folk tales
tend to be based in reality, even when there is magic involved.  I use Stone
Soup and Paul Bunyon as examples of European/American folktales (with the
tall tale of Bunyon being a subgenre of the folktale in my opinion).
Obviously there is a lot of overlap between the two genres which is why I
normally refer to the 398's as "Folk and Fairy Tales" without worrying about
the distinction too much.

One of the things that I always stress with kids when
talking about "Folk tales" is that they quite often
explain something in nature and include animals and other
parts of nature--not as much as legends but still some
what. The only for instance I can think of at the moment
is Paul Bunyan and how he created the Great Lakes but I
know that there are others when I start thinking about it
since I have done it before. Real people doing spectacular
things without the help of a wizard or something,
     In my opinion they are also quite unique to each
region. The South American folktales I used to hear when I
lived in Bolivia and Ecuador are quite different than the
ones I heard growing up and I haven't heard that many
Asian ones--though now that I think about it they do have
lots of Korean fairy tales that I had never heard of so...
     As far as thinking of certain fairy tales as folk
tales--when I have read Lon Po Po in the past which is the
Chinese version of Red Riding Hood I think of it as more
folk tale than fairy tale and the same goes with many of
the Cinderella versions out there.
     OK--I think I am starting to ramble now but just
sharing some opinions.

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused! In my introduction to the fairy tale
section for Kindergarteners and First Graders, I mentioned the same things
you did, adding that there is usually a 'bad person' that can sometimes be
scary (remember it was K and 1st!) but that the 'good people' always win out
in the end. The little research I did to determine the difference is that
folk tales are usually very old stories that have been passed on verbally
over many generations and often represent the cultural values of a
community/country. But your question about Goldilocks and Red Riding Hood is
a good one that I can't answer. Is the 'magic' in this case the animals
talk?

I've been teaching fairy tales and folk tales to 3rd graders for the past 3
years.  This comes from a book called STRETCHY LIBRARY LESSONS.
A folktale is an anonymous, timeless, and placeless tale that expresses the
rituals, traditions, and beliefs of common people.  Folktales are often told
orally and passed down through generations.  They include Goldilocks, The
Three Little Pigs, Three Billy Goats Gruff, and Little Red Riding Hood.
Fairy tales often involve royalty, triumph over evil, wishes, magic, ect.
Characters often include trolls, witches, dragons, fairies, and other
fantastic characters.  Tales collected by the Grimm brothers or Charles
Perreault are considered fairy tales.  Hans Christian Anderson wrote
original fairy tales.
I put  headings on the board for fairy tales and folk tales, and ask
students for characteristics of each.  After we have two good lists of
characteristics I hold up several books and have the class vote on whether
it is a fairy tale or folk tale, and tell why.  I follow this up by
comparing different versions of fairy tales and/or folktales.  Or third
graders have always enjoyed it.

This is the way I explain it:  A folktale is a story that has been passed
down from generation to generation (as grown-ups would say, by oral
tradition), and we don't know who originally made up the story.  So, a
folktale could also be a fairy tale and vice versa.  Grimm's fairytales are
folktales because they traveled throughout Germany collecting stories.  If
we know the original author of the fairy tale (Charles Perrault--Cinderella
and Puss n Boots,  etc. and Hans Christian Anderson--The Little Mermaid, The
Nightingale, etc.), then it's not a folktale.

Fairy Tales are a type of Folk Tale that has a magical event or creature --
some type of fantastical activity.  I find it is easier to teacher students
what a Folk Tale is first and then tell them a Folk Tale becomes a Fairy
Tale when.... or a Folk Tale becomes a Fable when...

can you use the premise sometimes the folklore won't contain all of the
elements?




-- 
Melissa Byrd, Librarian/Media Specialist
Jacksboro Elementary
Jacksboro, TN
mbyrd3@gmail.com

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