Hit: IAC InfotracTOM Full-text changed to Ebsco Full-text Elite

[Peter Milbury <pmilbury@CUSD.CHICO.K12.CA.US>]

Hello LM_NET,

Last week I posted a Target asking for experiences and/or recommendations
from those who had switched from Infotrac to Ebsco Full-text periodical
database versions. Here are my responses. Many thanks to all who quickly
responded with an exceptional set of helpful information. I hope that it
will also assist others in their decisionmaking.

Peter Milbury

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Saw your message and just wanted to correct a little piece of information.
The special buying price was not negotiated by the state, it was negotiated
by NITAC, the instructional materials buying consortium which encompasses
asll of Region 2 plus Humboldt and Del Norte.  I'm in a hurry right now,
but if youneed numbers of periodicals indexed and with full text, I have
that info, but would have to retrieve it tomorrow.  Let me know if you
still need it.

Kathy Graves, IMC Director/Librarian
Siskiyou County Superintendent of Schools Office
609 South Gold Street, Yreka, CA 96097

e-mail: kgraves@sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us           Phone: 916-8420-8427
hmpg: http://www.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us/~imcftp  FAX:  916-842-8436
AV Dept:  916-842-8428                          Library: 916-842-8430
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I did a preview session with both of them and ended up purchasing
SuperTom for two "main" reasons...the indexing is great and easy to
use (students like all those headings) and it has reference books and
full-text newspapers on it. Ebsco at that time had NYTimes indexed,
but we didn't take it so it didn't help us.  I was(and am still not)
an authority in this field, but we bought what worked for us. Good
luck.
George Anne Draper
LMS, Wynne, AR
gdraper@wps.k12.ar.us

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     I have been using EBSCO full-text elite for about ??3-4yr.s
I just love it.  I switched from UMI--Resource-One  --but used TOM
before that.  I do feel EBSCO  has the most to offer.  There is info.
in the LM_net archives comparing them.  EBSCO  has some exciting thing
coming up in the "Net" too.  I would like to know if you have done
anything about Electric Library.  (800 fulltext magazines and 150 full-
text newspapers.!!  Wonderful to use in addition to EBSCO)
                           Hope this helps,    Carolyn

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From: Betty Dawn Hamilton <bhamilt@tenet.edu>

Hi, Peter! I didn't change from Tom, Jr. (I ordered it, but moved to HS
before it came in) so I can't really compare, but our students couldn't
*live* without EBSCO Elite and SIRS!  Different classes require different
types of publications, and surprisingly, SIRS and EBSCO do not seem to
overlap too much.

Betty

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From: Ron McAtee <rmcatee@netnitco.net>

Peter
We have used the Ebsco search engine for a number of years at both the
HS and the MS.

I students have had no problems using it.  I have used a sample of the
full text (also order it) and the search  engine is the same as the MAS
which we have had for quite a while.

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Will this be mounted on a tower and networked?  We're having problems
with our EBSCO MAS (not full text).  We used to "recreate the locals"
once from the librarian's computer (the CD on in the internal CD on
the server).  Now they want us to "recreate the locals" from every
OPAC station (all nine of them).

We did have a system crash and the Network Analyst believed it had to do
with the EBSCO product.  Another school had the same problem. We just
didn't use the MAS product at the end of school. That was in May - a new one
has arrived and I don't know if this problem is solved.

Sue Weiss
Ballard HS Librarian
Seattle, WA
(206) 281-6010
sweiss@cks.ssd.k12.wa.us

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I have only used a "preview" copy of EMAS.  One of my complaints about it
versus InfoTrac is the fact that it does a keyword search first, rather
then a heirarchical subject headiing search.  As IAC's ad suggests - if
you search for Dole you get everything from pineapple to people who are on
the public "dole."  I also feel that some of the periodicals are a bit far
fetched, especially for our small school.  I know InfoTrac has some
problems, but I still like it better than MAS.  Just a few thoughts.  Good
luck in your decision.
Carole


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            Carole L. Ashbridge
     Library Media Specialist/Model Schools Program Site Administrator
Sackets Harbor Central School         ~        Phone: 315-646-3575
Box 290                               ~        Fax:   315-646-1038
Sackets Harbor, NY  13685-0290        ~        ashbridg@northnet.org
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From: Mary Lacroix <mlacroix@interlog.com>

We had extended trials of both products last year during which I collected
student evaluations (grades 7-OAC (a post-grade 12 class in Ontario).
Satisfaction with both products' ability to locate information was high, and
although students found the Infotrac CD-ROM somewhat easier to use than
Ebsco,
they still found Ebsco to be reasonably easy.

Although the Ebsco product was pricier, I preferred it to Infotrac as its
selection of magazines was more comprehensive and appropriate for high
school users.

I hope this helps, and perhaps you can help me in return. I'm no longer
working in that high school and have tried to unsubscribe from LM_NET as
other professional mailing lists are taking up a lot of my time. I have
been unable to signoff and have tried all the tricks mentioned, including
sending the REVIEW LM_NET message, but the file I got in return did not
list my address, so I'm baffled as to why I'm still on the list. The only
thing that seems to be unusual is that I seemed to have been unsubscribed
to the list by accident last year. I subscribed again, and everything
seemed fine, until I began getting duplicate messages. I signed off and
found that I was back to single copies of each message, but I just can't
seem to completely signoff now.

Sorry, I know you're very busy and shouldn't have to concern yourself
with such things, but as the school year approaches and the list gets
busier, I don't know what else to do to prevent the flodd from washing me
away ;-(

Mary Lacroix.

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We have, by a sort of fluke, both MAS and TOM; I doubt whether or not
I will be able to fund them both, but we have had them side by side
for some time.

I have to say that I and the few kids who will take the time to figure
out TOM's subheadings and the use of microfiche like TOM better.

However, after observing a lot of High Schoolers use them both, I
have to admit that they have more luck using and understanding MAS.

We get MAS Fulltext Elite, but I think that if budgets get worse, I will
get the Select version, with less retro coverage.

Price-wise, I like SIRS best, would next buy MAS, and wish I could keep
TOM as well since it does cover some things (especially reviews of
educational products) that MAS does not. And as I say, I like subheadings.
But the kids vote with their use, and their vote is for MAS.

Hope this helps,

Dana Pope
popeda@heidelberg-emh2.army.mil

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Peter, here at Callaway High School we use  Ebsco's Middle Search and have
been pleased with it.  This is our third year to use it.  We would use
Full-text Elite but do not have the funds to buy it.  That is why we use
Middle Search.

We have it in a tower along with Granger's World of Poetry, Discovering
Authors, Readers' Guide Abstracts, SIRS Researcher and Scribner's Writers.

Hope this will help!

Jacqueline Mohle                   Callaway High School Library
jmohle@jackson.k12.ms.us           Jackson, Mississippi

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This is what I got when I switched.  Carol Lindner
These are the comments I got on switching from Tom to Ebsco MAS.
We sue MAS elite.  In the l.5 years we have used it we have not needed
techn. support.  It is a great product that our students use a great
deal.  We have not used any other electronic idnex.

I switched from Ebsco to UMI, Proquest in March this year.  I had used
TOM in the past, and found it cumbersome.  Ebsco was easy to use, but
they were very expensive and I found that the full text articles were
sometimes misleading.  The list of titles seemed more geared to9 public
library use.  Proquest has an appealing price structure and so far I am
very happy with the product and the support.

I switched from infotrac to ebsco and am very happy with the change.  I
had both for a while and students would line up for the ebsco and leave
the infotrac idle.  I've had some problems networking the ebsco annd the
technical support was great.

I have Ebsco's magazine article summaries.  I am quite pleased with their
technical support.  I almsot always get through to a technician.  They
are very helpful no matter whawt level of expertise you havewith
computers.  They helped with installation as well as daily use problems.

We use Ebsco MAS select and are pleased with the product.  We found,
through our very creative Technology Director, that the text of the
network version can be placed on the harddrive of the our district
server.  If you do the same, you will notice a dramatic increase in
speed.  At present we have 74 computers that  can access the data and we
are still smiling.  Many more terminals will be added over the summer.
EBSCO"s technical support is very good.

We have subscribed to Ebsco Full Text Elite for 2 years now and I feel
that is oone of the main components to a research program in our school.
We also looked at Wilson Disk and I was not impressed.  It is definitedly
a must for a high school library.  You are definitely doing not only the
right thing but the best thing for your students.  Hope you love it as
much as me do.

I have had both Tom Jr. and Magazine Articles Summaries elite.  I prefer
the latter.  It has more full text, more magazines and the support is
great.  They are very responsive and getting to them is easy and quick.

We use MAS select and have found their tech support first class.  It has
only involved using their l 800 line, but we always have gotten results
and problems solved over the phone.  On one occassion they couriered a
replacement disk to finally determine that the problem wasn't the disk,
rather it was the CD juke box.

We have Ebsco MAS full text elite, and our students like it.  We chose
Ebsco because of the number of periodicals and titles of periodicals
which are full-text.  We've also used Infotrac, but the full-text version
has fewer fulk-text periodicals than Ebsco MAS, adn Infotrac required you
to mail bac k old CD's at your expense.

We have switched from Tom to Ebsc9, I like the full text articles, but
they print full text from Rolling Stone Mag. and for my middle school it
makes me nervous.

I have used MAS since they first started it.  I have always had excellent
tech support and like the product.  This is my second school using it.

I use the Ebsco MAS not ull text unfortunately.  I really like it.  I
previewed it along with Proquest and Infotrac.  ?Students and faculty
liked it best.  I haven't had too many problems with it, we are running
on a 7 station Novell network.  Their tech suport helped me once, very
quickly, and our network manager helped once.  No other problems.  The
manual is pretty good, on screen help is good.Especially like having full
text of Magill book reviews and the ability to toggle between a full
search of the CD database, or a search of local titles only.  The feature
really helps the student coming in at the very last minute.  We subscribe
to it on the school year monthly basis-keeps us very up to date.

I have used Ebsco's MAS and upgraded to MAS elite and loved both, so did
the students and teachers.  I opened a new school and MAs was the product
that I chose after spending a lot of time at ALA evaluating MAS, Tom, and
Proquest.  The technical support people were always griendly and
helpfull. l It is easy to use and can be networked.  I used it for
collection development and was able to increase my periodicalbudget
because I could show that we needed to add certain periodicals.  When we
upgraded to full text I was able to drop some of the subscriptions.

I am using Ebsco full text select, and I am pleased with the product.
The technical support has always been very helpful.  We are a mac library
so I did not have many options for a while, but even though there are
lots of new products, I intend to stay with Ebsco.  I previewed proquest
earlier but decided to go with Ebsco.

Yes, I like the Ebsco MAS alot.  It was the first one we installed in my
school and the rest of the secondary schools here in Iowa  City.  We
looked at several others and came to the conclusion that Ebsco offered us
the brst deal.  I like the way it looks on the screen good use of color,
hightlighting and screen space.  The seach screens are logical, easy to
use.  Options are plentiful and relatively easy to get at when changes
need to be made.  Printing is good.  Accuracy, while not perfect, is not
a problem mayber once or twice a year we can't find something that's
supposed be on page 57, whatever.  Frankly, I don't think I 've called
tech support sincer I first installed the program three years ago.  I get
quarterly updates that have an easy self-installer.  I just put it in,
rebuild locals, and go back to work.  Hope this helps.

We have been using Ebsco MAS full text elite for the past year and half.
Oure is in Mac format and we have had virtually no problems.  The time or
two that I have called for tech support I have received immediate
assistance.  I like being able to indicate which titles we  won in paper
so that students know whether they[re going to have immediate access or
so that students know whether they[re going to have immediate access or
ot.  Students like haveing many availabe in full text.  Another plus is
access to many titles that we do not own, but that we can get by fax from
libraries in our resource sharing network.

I have been using Ebsco's MAS for 3 years.  technical support when needed
has been swift and to the point.  I had a problem with my cd tower
reading the cd and they sent another copy at no cost.  I'd recommend with
out reservation.

My last library used Tom.  I now use Ebsco.  I like Ebsco betterand their
tech support also seems a bit better.

We have always used MAS from Ebsco.  I have had the demo of Tom before
though.  I liked Ebsco better because the searching seemed so much more
powerful.  We emphasize Boolean Logic a lot and MAS allows you to use it
and truncation effectibely.  I also like the fact that the CD is
cross-platform.  That is, I can put it in a Mac or a Dos.  We don't yet
have networked CD rom so sometimes I use the current CD and a past one in
two different machines when lots of kids need magazines.  Probably not
legal, (This is legal, I have it from the sales rep that it is Carol) but
sometimes we do what we have to temporarily.  I'd love to have their
select or elite version.

We switched from Tom to Ebsco 3 years ago and now are switching to
Proquest.  Ebsco indexes lost of magazines, but most we don't have and
that frustrated the students (6-12th) grade.  The Ebswco installation
each month has become nightmarish; msot months there is some glitch and
they sent the wrong disk or wrong instructions whatever.  There can also
be a long delay in full text material so you really can't drom some full
text magazines because you'll be 3-4 months behind.  Proquest is not that
far behind because of UMI's copyright agreement for the microfilming.  It
indexes fewer mags, but we can have access to all of them between the
full text and the paper subscriptions.  I haven't seen Tom in 3 years so
I can't compare it to either product.  Hope this helps.

After using Ebsco for 3 years, I'm switching to UMI.  For the following
reasons.1.  By buying full text, I paid for it by cutting magazines.
2.  UMI gibes me the right to keep forever the last disk the school
bought while Ebsco says that they own all the disks forever (Sales rep
old me that you do n ot return old disk so you can run them how ever you
want carol)
3.  Ebsco was fustrating because we didn't own most of thr periodicals.
I was very tired of telling students sorry...

Hope this helps.
Carol Lindner
Beatrice Sr. High School
Beatrice, NE  68310
clindner@esu6.esu6.k12.ne.us

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Have you considered offering Electric Library (the Infonautics, Inc online
reference) to your students, rather then SIRS or TOM or FTE?

For the last few years we've had SIRS Researcher and Super TOM+.  We also
did a long trial of Ebsco FTE. All were good datasets, but none of these
had relevancy  (proximity) or reading level attached. I called the
Infonautics office recently and was told that soon they will add a feature
to the search engine which will allow a user to specify a reading level
filter for the hits.  This should eliminate the problem of 7th grade
students receiving hits from JAMA for example, which is, as you know, a big
problem with both CD based products


When Electric Library announced itself on the Web early this year, I signed
up for the free trial.

I tested it for two weeks and then lucked out at the silent auction at our
Wisconsin Ed Media Assoc Conference.
I made a $75 bid about 6 minutes before the drawing.  I won a $2000 service
for $76. We've used it heavily ever since. It's proven to be the most
directly useful reference we offer.

The search engine seems to thrive on the non-librarian style of query many
students employ. The relevancy scaling function is very useful as is the
reading level values provided with each hit.

Next year I hope our "state price" for EL will be +/-1300.  If so, I feel
certain I'll order EL to replace either TOM+ or SIRS.

Hope this is helpful.
bk

Communications Decency Act declared unconstitutional!!

"As the most participatory form of mass speech yet developed,
the Internet deserves the highest protection from government
intrusion." CDA death notice, June 12, 1996
____________________________________________________________
Belleville School District Librarian
101 South Grant Street
Belleville, WI 53508
koechley@facstaff.wisc.edu
WebEd k12 Curriculum Links at:
http://badger.state.wi.us/agencies/dpi/www/WebEd.html
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From: emclane@int1.mhrcc.org

        We have Ebsco full text elite for two years.  I have not used
Infotrack but the search on Ebsco is not difficult.  You can choose an
alphabetical list of subjects and it will go to the closest term to
the one you enter.  It also  refers the user to preferred terms. (a
See reference to us). It also has keyword searching.  My concern with
Ebsco is that so many of the references are to summaries not full text
and our students don't want summaries and don't want to wait for
inter-library-loans for magazine articles.  SIRS and possibly the
Internet have spoiled them.

Ellen McLane

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I had both side-by-side on a CD tower, Novell network setup and asked the
kids to choose which one they would prefer for next year.  The vote was 543
to 3 in favor of Info Trac.  Ouch!  I needn't have wasted the money.  EBSCO
created many network problems for me as well and tech support was awful.  It
would be four days later when, and if, they would return a call.  I can't
afford the down time.  I'll spend the extra dollars.  The kids have had Info
Trac for four years and EBSCO only last year so that may be a factor.  Only
three found things they didn't find on the Trac and they weren't thrilled
the extra effort it took.  They want it as easy as possible.
Other people in our area that are not networked and have EBSCO on single
user machines love it.  Guess it depends on what you are doing.  Sounds like
a tough choice.  No choice for me; I'll stick with Info Trac.

Carolyn R. Roys
ghslib@geneseo.net
309-944-2699 phone and fax
teacher librarian at J. D. Darnall Senior High School
700 N. State Street
Geneseo Il 61254

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I have been using EBSCO Full-text Elite for the last 6 years at a high
school.  The teachers, students, and I just LOVED it.  The public library
in the area has INFOTrack and a library friend of mine has INFOTrak.
I feel the EBSCO is much easier to use and has much more information.  My
library friend would prefer to have EBSCO, but it is much more expensive.
I think you will be very happy with EBSCO.  Their technical support is great
also.  Sorry this is a day late.  We just came home from vacation.
Hope this helps you.  If you need any more information, please e-mail me.
bsteinme@kentvm.kent.edu
Bonnie Steinmetz

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Peter Milbury                           pmilbury@ericir.syr.edu
Librarian, Chico High School, Chico, CA
A National Blue Ribbon School & California Distinguished School
Co-owner of LM_NET:
Serving 5,000+ in the Virtual School Library Media Community
...............................................................
 +Peter Milbury's School Library & School Librarian Web Pages+
       http://www.cusd.chico.k12.ca.us/~pmilbury/lib.html
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