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Hi there, here are the answers I received on the automation question. People were wonderful with their responses and all the time they gave me. I hope this Hit works because i have never tried this before, from Helen Dittmer, Redwood Day School, Oakland, Ca <hdittme@ix.netcom.com> If you are going to do all the input of records yourself, I would give yourself a year. You could set up a time-table as to how many shelf cards you can do an hour and then figure out how long it will take. It will take volunteers more time that it takes you since you already know what everything means. I have a small library and use Alexandria. I started with a circulation desk computer and one student station. My yearly cost (after purchasing the system) is $399. If you go with an unlimited site license, it's $499.00. The hardest part is putting in the data, but I think a library your size can probably be done. To farm it out to a contract company costs lots of money. I put in a library with 10,000 volumes some years ago. However, it was not a full catalog - only circulation data. But you could do a skeleton record and then have volunteers go back and fill in the complete data. That way you would be sure to be up and running. You might want to keep you card catalog for a year or two (without adding new information) until you are totally automated. I would make sure you order all your new books with diskettes and barcodes - that way you don't have to keep adding titles forever. I only order my largest orders with diskettes and barcodes. I add all my other titles myself. It's time-consuming, but it saves money. My district is in the middle of changing automation systems. I have been doing cataloging since July 9 and I've learned a few things. You definitely want to use a CD to download the books. I used Bookwhere and searched over the internet at one school and it took much longer than using a CD. Disadvantage of the CD is that some books are not on them. I think having both Bookwhere and the CD would be ideal because you could switch to find the books. I found that using the Library of Congress was very precise when LC number was used but sometimes took two minutes or more per book. Other databases were quicker at times. The main thing I have learned is that it will take longer than you expect. A search at amazon.com brought up a book that used to be used as a textbook at Drexel University. Unfortunately it isout of print, but maybe ILL could supply you with a copy. I read it when I took the automation course several years ago, and although it was dated, I found the timeline (was it called a pert or gant chart?) helpful. Corbin, John Boyd. Implementing the automated library system / by John Corbin. Phoenix : Oryx Press, 1988. Let me explain the timetable I used (and if I had to do it again, I would do about the same thing.) First, Jan-June I barcoded the collection and put the little readable strip on the shelf list card. Over the summer hardware and software were purchased. I started out with an IBM and opted for Follette's Circ Plus (this was about 8 years ago.) In Sept I got the faculty and students entered into the system. Then my adult aide or myself sat at the computer with the shelf list cards for as many minutes as we could offer to enter about 8,000 items into the system. We did what was called a brief record....author, title, publisher, ©, ISBN, LC. The software did not have a card catalog option at the time. Just 2 years ago, we switched to Mac platform and converted to Alexandria. Alex has a card catalog option, so we purchased something called Smart Marc that took the short records we converted and did a match with complete Marc records. Of course, there were some mismatches, and some titles that did not match at all. But after running Smart Marc, I had full automated card catalog functions. Currently we are taking each shelf list card and checking it with the Marc record info. Making any corrctions, additions or deletions. I am very happy with the way we eased into our initial automated circulation.....then after a few years moving into the OPAC option. It was an easy transition. Good luck with Helen, The most important things to do is to have a very good up-to-date shelf list. When I did the first conversion in 1988, I typed in all the data entry myself. when I did the second library in 1997 we send in the shelf list. both times we matched the lists of titles to the barcodes that were assigned to the books. In each case we had printed lists of the titles that matched the books on the shelves. I used volunteeers the first time to bar code the books and the second time my secretary and I barcoded them. It took approximately one minute per book to apply the bar code and protector. An efficient way I found to do it was to take the book card out of the bokk when I took it off the shelf, stack the books, match the book to the list, apply the bar code, line up about five books and apply the protector to each barcode, pu the books back on the shlef in order. I used a book truck or cart to hold the books while I was completeing this process. Weed books - now Edit shelf list - now Decide on and Buy software Buy barcodes based on software if you're doing it yourself I input the data myself and barcoded at the same time. It took less than a year. I spent the summer inputting easy and non-fiction so they were ready the day school began. I taped off fiction and did them a shelf at a time as school began By Christmas all the print materials were entered (about 9000 items. By Easter everything was entered (videos, transparencies, equipment....) y school district went through this process a few years back. We sent out the shelf list in the spring...to assure it would be back in the fall. (Do make sure to discard and have ISBN #s on shelf list card. The software was installed by the company during the first few days of work in the fall. We also had them train us. Then we put the barcodes which had arrived on the books. We had the library closed while bar coding. My aide and I did it in a matter of weeks. Depends on the size of your collection. At 10:41 PM 8/15/99 > If I were to begin >to automate next July with CASPR I assume I would send in my shelf list >cards for retrospective conversion. While this was happening would I be >installing the software?--or would the next thing be to put barcodes on >the books? And how much time does one allow for either of these >operations? Recon will have to be completed before you load the software and data. I suppose you could load the software, but it won't work until there's data! Need to have the smart barcodes so that you get the correct barcode on the correct book -- that also requires recon to be completed. Can do about 1 book a minute when adding barcodes, but you will probably have to do "the cycle" two or three times to allow for books that are mis Be sure to come to my session on "Avoiding the Potholes on the Automation Highway" at CSLA in Palm Springs! We spent about 2 yrs. in the entire process, but that included deciding which program to use. I would think that, once you've made that decision, and IF the company provides "recon" (conversion from cards to machine), that it should take about 4-6 mo. to get the system back; then you have to put all the smart barcodes on the books (30-60 books/hour), get the student ID cards made which will include the patron barcode (MY recommendation is NOT to have the same number as the student ID number), etc. >They also have a CD from which I can >download titles and that should make things easier, shouldn't it? Definitely easier, but you won't get ALL the titles! So you'll have to keep track of which ones you'll need to enter manually. Takes about 10 min/title to enter from scratch. Your volunteers need to know PRECISELY (sp? looks wierd!) how to enter data into the BIB record (NOT an intuitive process, I might add!) I assume that you have very little budget, from your mention of volunteers. If you were to have some budget for consulting, I'd be glad to come over to Oakland (from San Mateo) to help out. Helen, Automation takes time! I am not familiar with CASPR, but I am familiar with Follett and Mandarin. Some of the things you need to consider: - Clean up your shelf list. If your cards do not include ISBN or LC#, try to add as many as possible. Many retroconversions use these to match records. If you do not have these, you may end up with brief (title/author) records. - Check with CASPR to see if they provide training and what they feel is a good timeline. - Find a company to do retroconversion and what they expect. What are your options for conversion. Some companies give you the options of matching by ISBN or LC and a partial title, typing directly from your cards, matching from their database first and then going to OCLC if they do not have a record. Each option carries a different price per record. - Do you need to barcode first? This may depend on CASPR as well as on your vendor for retro. Many of our districts barcode first for Follett and convert through a local non-profit agency. But, on the other hand, if they decide to convert directly through Follett, they barcode after the fact. Our Mandarin schools always barcode after the fact. Keep in mind, if you barcode first, you will have what is referred to as 'dumb' barcodes (barcodes with just numbers and maybe school name on them). If you barcode before, you will need to attach or write the barcode on each shelf list card. If you barcode after the conversion, you would most likely have 'smart' barcodes ( barcodes that include your school name, the title fo the book and the call number of the book). This becomes very timeconsuming and troublesome when you have a series of books or a set of encyclopedias. Most labels will only fit x number of characters. If a series starts the same, ie The Babysitters Club..., there is no identification of the actually title and you would need to wait to attach those barcodes to the individual items until you could check in your database what the barcode is actually attached to. - Cost of CASPR? - Cost of new hardware if needed? - Cost of training? - Time to barcode? Volunteers or your time/pay for you or aides to do this/ substitute to cover your day while you work on this? - Weed your collection!! Weed, Weed, Weed and weed some more!!! Why pay to have something converted if it really needs to be weeded anyway? -Do you need to send your paperback collection for conversion? Are you going to track them? What is there shelf life? Do you want/need full records or are title/author acceptable? Can you do on the fly entries from circulation and add them as they are checked out? Staffing considerations is an issue here as is how hectic check out gets. After all of these considerations, you may have a better sense of how much time it will take and how much is needed. Helen, I can only tell you my experiences with Winnebago, because I've never automated with anyone else. The process will also vary with what, exactly, you're purchasing, for instance, if the hardware is also part of the package. Once you've selected your vendor and contracted with them, they will probably send you a "kit" for sending in your shelf list. With Winnebago, you have about 30 days after contract to send the shelf list in, so you need to have it pretty much in shape before you actually sign the contract. The "kit" will contain card-drawer sized boxes for shipping the cards, a larger box for shipping all the smaller boxes, instructions for how they want them ordered, and the UPS label for shipping them back. You put it all together, ship it off, and then you wait. It should take about 6 weeks to get the data back, but if they have lots of orders on the vendor end, it could take longer. My current conversion job (my elem libraries) went to Winnebago at the end of June, and are not back yet. If you purchased the hardware as part of the package, it will probably arrive and someone will help you set it up and network it before the software arrives. If you already have hardware, the software may not arrive until just before the data conversion. If you ask them special, they might send it to you for installation right away, but usually they wait for the conversion, assuming that you can't do anything with it until you get your data back anyhow. Also, your tech support begins with shipment of the software, so you don't want to waste any of your tech support time just sitting on the stuff without being able to use it. If you do ask for your software right away, be sure that anything you do with it is going to be in line with the data conversion. The software will come to you "naked" without any of the setups for material types, patron types, etc. They will be doing these during the data conversion, and you don't want to be working at cross-purposes with them. It's not that you won't be able to change them, just that you don't want to make hassles for yourself needlessly. You can always call and find out what numbers they are associating with which types (part of it you will have decided yourself before you send in the conversion materials) and just do the same. This way you will at least have the system set up and you can practice with it, to some extent, and enter anything that you'll have to do by hand. Those are the ONLY items you'll be able to barcode ahead - the things you catalog in yourself. When your conversion returns, it will be the data on disk, AND barcodes for each item, both patron and materials. Be sure that any barcodes you put on ahead of time are in a number range that will not overlap the numbers you've told your vendor to use. Once your conversion returns, THEN you'll be in for a couple of weeks of steady barcoding. Most of the barcodes will be easy to match with their book, but when you have multiple copies of something, copies in more than one language, or an encyclopedia, for instance, you may have to zap the code first to make sure that the record is for the book in hand. Scott O'Dell's "Zia" will look the same, barcode wise, in both English and Spanish. You'd have to zap the barcode and make sure that the right number was going on the right book. You will be surprised what is NOT in your records. If at all possible, it's wise to have some people doing the barcoding and passing the books to you so that you can zap each one and check the record. The conversion depends on the vendor actually being able to find a matching record for that book IN THEIR SOURCES, whatever those are. If they did not find a match, they will give you the nearest match, or type in a very basic record so that you have a barcode for that item. The actual record may not have notes, subj. headings, or anything except author and title. Especially, go through and add prices, since that may not have been entered at all. Do not throw away your shelf list immediately, since you will probably have to go back through and add some bits and pieces to these records for a long time. It's been 3 years since I did my first conversion, and I'm sure that school still has records with no price on them. I just haven't had the time to go through all of them to find out. Here's what I did on my second conversion, when I was older and wiser: On return of the shelf list, as the barcoding was going on, I would pick a section, for instance, Fiction. I would sort the computer records by call number, and then page through them one at a time, with the actual shelf list right next to me. I'd compare the card with the record. If it was complete, I'd throw the card away. If it was incomplete, I'd do one of two things: 1. Type in the missing stuff and throw the card away, or 2. Write what was needed at the top of the card and leave it in the shelf list. (My note might say "No ISBN, Subj" if it was missing the ISBN and subject headings. That way you will have ONLY the cards with errors to deal with later, and you can do a handful of them whenever you have time. Helen - altho we used Follett and not CASPR, I can give you a little info. I'm not familiar with CASPR but they should have some material with the basics and a toll-free number to get a human being to answer your questions. Winnebago and Follett both have wonderfully helpful booklets that they will send you for free - I'm not sure if the same info is at their websites. Immediately: weed, weed, weed! No sense wasting any time on something old that doesn't circulate. Clean up your shelf list - full citation etc. If you're sending them out, be sure they'll be able to read and understand your notes. This is the time to correct your cataloging - Lynne Reid Banks was in R and B, a previous librarian didn't like decimals, so them crossed out (can you picture my 599s?), my old bios were 92 - we use B, etc. Correct the cards, get new spine labels done... (volunteers!!!)(If you keep a list of corrections, this could also be done after you send out your records.) Barcoding is extremely time consuming (volunteers!!!)and can be handled two ways. You can send out your SL without barcodes and the co. will return your MARC records on disks and send you "smart barcodes" - they'll say which book they're for, and you then must attach the barcodes. We decided (sorry to stop in the middle of a sentence, but my entire hit is too large to send to all of you. ) from Helen Dittmer, Redwood Day school , Oakland, CA <hdittme@ix.netcom.com> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-= All postings to LM_NET are protected under copyright law. 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