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Here's part 2.......

I don't know if this is a satifactory answer, but we had the same problem
until be realized that we needed to stop referring to the books with Dewey
numbers as the non-fiction section. We now call that section the Dewey
Decimal section and explain to students that all materials including
fiction and biographies can be given a Dewey Decimal number. However, in
order to make it easier for them we put some fiction book and some
biographies in special sections. We give fairy tales a Dewey number so
they will be together and when the teacher asks them to find a fairy tale
they don't have to search though all the fiction books.
******************************************************************************
Ever notice that when something is changed from the original intent there
is inevitably something that no longer fits?  This is, essentially, the
case of the modified Dewey System.

Believe it or not, there is no place in the basic philosophy of Dewey for
Fiction/NonFiction and the changes we've made by creating a Fiction
collection added to it has left a lot of areas - not just Fairy Tales -
hard to justify.

All material can be identified within the Dewey Numbers.  Nonfiction items
like, of course, novels can be listed in the literature 800s.  As, Grapes
of Wrath in 813, the Christmas Carol in 823, etc.

Therefore it's not really fair to continue using Fiction/Nonfiction as
definitions within the system and its use, as Tracey has indicated, will
inevitably lead to questions whose only answer can be that "traditionally"
we place certain items in a certain location.

It leads also, as another LM_Net member just posted, the problem of where
to put essay collection like Chicken Soup for the Soul.

A fine example, by the way, is to take a look at the history of the
cataloguing of Go Ask Alice (Anon.) which was originally catalogued as
non-fiction (in the 610s) and only after the author admitted that the
account was fictional was it changed to the Fiction designation.  Seem also
to recall that the Amityville Horror also did such a change.

Now, what we tell the students?  I really don't know.  I've tried the
"Information on this topic can be found in ....."  but I still get "But
Mrs. Jones told us that all the ones with numbers are true".  Maybe someone
out there has some suggestions.
******************************************************************************
When I ask my middle-schoolers, "what is non-fiction?," the robotic answer
is always "true books."

My reply is:
Now that you are getting older, you can understand more.  Non-fiction
books are information books.... and not all information is true.

This bombshell statement is met with SILENCE and then I'll get some
bewildered/curious looks .... (especially from teachers!)
Depending on the situation, I may go on to explain how every book is
written from the author's point of view, that knowledge about a topic
changes, that mistakes can be made, etc.
This can lead nicely into a discussion of the perils of the internet,
where there are no publication editors, fact-checkers, etc.

And when fiction is being defined, I love it when a perceptive kiddo
says, "But some fiction books have true stuff in them..."  So then I talk
about historical fiction.

My point to them is that while we try to categorize books for convenience,
the lines can be blurry.  Do all of them "get it" right away?  No, but
some do and the rest have had exposure.  (Not sure about the teachers,
though.<grin>)
******************************************************************************
We haven't called it the non-fiction section for about 15 years.  Your very
question is the reason why.... it isn't the non-fiction section.  Dewey never
intended for his system to be non-fiction only. It was devised  so that every
book could be included.  I can't find out exactly when or where it became
"non-fiction".
I make a point of making sure the students understand that we pull some
fiction and biography and put them in their own sections to make it a little
easier to find but they could all fit in the Dewey section.  The Dewey section
is also labeled DEWEY.  If it has a number it is in the Dewey section.

The kids don't have any problem with this and I feel it is far more accurate
that what we had been doing in the past.
******************************************************************************
The 390's are for folklore and customs from around the world, including
holiday celebrations and tales and legends passed down from generation to
generation.
    Dewey intended his system to work for all books, with the 800's being
designated for "recently" written literature, whether prose or poetry.
Technically all fiction should be placed in the 800's.  We shelve it under
FIC just for convenience.
******************************************************************************
398.2 because Folk Tales and Fairy Tales tell us about Society.  and that
is the Social sciences section of the general classification section.  811
Poetry because if the poety were filed by author's last name like the
fiction it would be scattered  all over the place and it is easier when
poetyr is all together--besides it is in the literature section.  Fiction
could be put in the literature section too, but that would make for a
really big 800 section.  Makes sense to the kids.
******************************************************************************
I do not use the term "non-fiction" to describe books arranged by Dewey.
During orientation, I tell my students that the two basic sections in the
library are "fiction" and "classified."  The fiction books are the novels
and short stories, arranged alphabetically by the authors' or editors' last
names.  The rest are classified by the Dewey Decimal system.  This includes
many books that are not non-fiction such as fairy tales, folktales,
legends, myths, poetry, plays, joke books, etc.  Novels and short stories
could be arranged by Dewey classification numbers too, but like most school
and public libraries, ours has a separate section for novels and short
stories, referred to as the "fiction" section.  Teachers are always
surprised when I tell students that it isn't really true that all books
that aren't novels or short stories are non-fiction, and that the correct
term is "classified."  Everyone has had the term "non-fiction" drilled into
them for so long, it's hard for them to understand that "non-fiction" is a
actually a misnomer when applied to all books arranged by Dewey Decimal
number.
******************************************************************************
        I always tell my students that Non-fiction books are informational
books and arranged by subject. Fiction books are make believe stories that
are arranged by author's last name.  By stressing the arrangement of the
books, I explain that fairy tales, plays, and poetry books are put in the
nf section so they can be arranged by the subject of poems, plays or fairy
tales rather than the fiction section where they would be spread all over
the alphabet depending on the author's name.  They seem to understand this
explanation...hope this helps.
******************************************************************************
The Dewey classification system classifies all literature - not just
nonfiction.  In fact, all fiction has some sort of 800 classification.  At
some point it was pulled out of the numbered collection just because it was
so large.  It's become accepted practice to refer to the books with call
numbers as nonfiction and the books shelved by author as fiction, I do it
too, but it's not accurate as your second
graders can probably recognize.  This is not so articulate an explanation
as I the one which was given to me - but I hope it helps.
******************************************************************************
  This is an explanation I've heard and that I use.
Fiction is a made-up story with a known author.   "Non" means "not."
Therefore "non-fiction" is anything that is _not_ a made up story with a
known author.  Folktales therefore are non fiction because there's no known
author, riddles and poems are not stories.  I tell them that there are a few
exceptions.  As far as relating this to Dewey, I do explain that technically
we could put all of the fiction in the 800s as literature and biographies in
either the 900s or in the appropriate subject section, e.g. books on Babe
Ruth in with baseball books.
******************************************************************************
 I always tell my students that nonfiction books are of two kinds 1.  books of
information (which may or may not be true), AND  2. stories that are told in a
special way (movies, poems, plays, fairy tales, legends nursery rhymes).
******************************************************************************
The fact is that maybe you should think of it as the Dewey section.  Not the
"non fiction" section. Dewey set it up so the part of the 200s where
"mythology fiction" is is really stories tied to religons.  That is why all
those bible stories are in there with the Greek and Roman gods. The 300s were
people talking and thinking about people and what they do. Folklore and fairy
tales and tall talls are about people doing things.I am told that these
stories belong here because they have been handed down through generations. I
haven't yet figured out why Native American,Asian, and Hawaiian stories about
their gods are usually found in the 398s instead of the 200s. The 800 are
where man writes and it is the classification for fiction. You could put all
your fiction in the various clasifications in the 800's nicely separated by
type of fiction (poetry, humor, plays,short stories, etc) and country of
origin.  But I find it easier to have whhat most of us consider fiction in
it's one place and I also divide it up by E fiction (which I explain as being
simple short stories with lots of pictures that everyone can enjoy), E chapter
books which are the easiest chapter books, and FIC fiction for the harder,
longer chapter books with few or no pictures and sonetimes smaller print. Hope
this helps.  I spent 6 years as a shelver and often wondered about the
cataloging choices.  There seems to be at least two places for everything.
.......... this year I foud the video version of Wiesner's "Tuesday"  it is
very true to the book and is only a few minutes long.  I showed it to each of
my classes (yup even the grownup 5ths) and taught them a tongue twister "Fifty
Flying Frogs Are Fiction".  We said it slow, fast faster and fastest. I then
offered to give them a Frog stamp on their hand if they could say it to me. I
have a rubber frog that leaves a 4 footed footprint stamp(is that really
clear). Anyway the kids still come in to say fifty flying frogs are fiction
and get their hand, and arm and cheek stamped.  If you made it up it is
fiction even if it has some true stuff in it. If it isn't fiction then it must
be non fiction.
******************************************************************************
Tracey Donaldson, LMS
Tioga Hills Elementary School
Apalachin, NY
bookluv@aol.com

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