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part 3......... Good questions! On the 398 question, I explain that fiction is made up by one person, that it came out of one person's head, and we know who that person is. With folklore, we can't pin it down to one person, since the stories have been around for hundreds of years, and have grown and changed along the way. As an example, I use a student in the class. "Well, let's say Danny wrote down a story that he made up by himself, out of his own imagination. He is then the author, and I can put a call number on his book of FICTION CLARK (or whatever). But if Danny is writing down a story that he heard his mom tell him, and his mom got this story from her dad, who got it from his aunt, who heard it from...how do we know who originally made up the story? If we can't tell, then it's probably a folk tale" Poetry gets a special section all to itself, since it's a special type of fiction - it's not necessarily a story. Literature - I haven't the foggiest idea! I'd be interested to see how other people explain these. ****************************************************************************** Hopefully some variation of the following might help you. The Dewey Decimal classification system was created by one man. He intended his classification system to encompass all knowledge hence the inclusion of not only 398.2 folklore but also the 800s Literature which he meant to include novels. Dewey was not the person who called the Dewey section non-fiction. Someone else (I don't know who) decided that it would be easier to pull fiction from Dewey and then labeled the section Fiction. By contrast, the Dewey section became non-fiction. ****************************************************************************** Tracey, When Melvil Dewey devised the Decimal System he intended that all books be given numbers. Fiction published in the US would be assigned to 813; British fiction, 823; Spanish fiction, 863 (I think), and so on. The college I attended in the late 60's practiced this until they switched to the LC system which also assigns a certain designation to fiction (in the Ps as I recall). Folklore is in the 300s because it is part of the culture. Many libraries, especially school libraries, have pulled fiction and easy books to make them easier to find, and perhaps also so they don't overwhelm the nonfiction collection. I assume the folklore is still 398 to keep it "corralled" so it doesn't become lost in the fiction. I try to teach my students that nonfiction books will have numbers, but that a number doesn't necessarily mean nonfiction. Of course in some libraries, very easy nonfiction may be filed in the easy section; then that statement won't work either. ****************************************************************************** Would it help to let them know that "fiction" also has a Dewey number? They really belong in 8*3, with the second number indicating the nationality of the author. Librarians found this cumbersome and started shelving fiction separately and disregarding the country of origin, put them all together. In order to have some organization and to make it easier for people to find what they want-they shelved them alphabetically by author. ****************************************************************************** My understanding of Dewey is that it can be used to organize all books. Fiction titles are meant to be organized under the 800s, as some "higher literature" is. Most libraries pull out fiction into a separate section to make cataloguing simpler. ****************************************************************************** I started a whole discussion about fiction versus non-fiction on LM_NET several months ago! Lots of librarians agreed with me that we need to get away from teaching the sections of the library as Fiction and Non-Fiction. There were many alternatives suggested: (1) The Dewey Decimal System contains classification numbers for all types of books, but fiction novels in English are so popular and such a large segment that they are separated and usually marked with F, FIC, etc. They could have been given the Dewey numbers for American novels and British novels and have been shelved in the 800's. (Short Stories, too, if these are shelved as a separate entity at the end of the novels or integrated within) (2) Non-novel fiction and factual books numbered by Dewey classification in one section - fiction novels in English (and short stories?) in the other. (3) Reference as a third section containing factual and fiction works given Dewey classification numbers. I have a few large poetry anthologies, Reader's Encyclopedia, Books of Quotations (fact and fiction), and mythology and folklore references in the Reference Section as well as the usual factual references. And how about a copy of the Bible in the 200's section of Reference? ****************************************************************************** I emphasis the fallacies of the idea of nonfiction whenever possible. When I teach the kids the Dewey system, we talk about it as a classification system that was intended to hold EVERYTHING! I tell them that I could classify them and find a place for them in the Dewey system. My middle school kids get a chuckle out of that idea. I ask them what they would think about still having all of the "fiction" books and biographies in the Dewey part of our library media center. They are glad that libraries decided to create separate sections for fiction and biographies. We also talk about why some fiction is still in the Dewey section. I have a favorite way to impress that what is "information" depends on factors such as point of view, the best knowledge of the time, etc. I share exerts from David Macaulay's book, MOTEL OF MYSTERIES. [From Amazon.com- List Price: $11.95, Paperback - 95 pages,(September 1979) Houghton Mifflin Co (Pap); ISBN: 0395284252] In case you are not familiar with it... The book starts with the idea that our civilization buried itself under junk mail and when there was an accidental reduction of 3rd class postage rates. Also, our pollution contributed to our demise. A future scientist digs up a "burial chamber" which would be better known to us as a motel room. This scientist painstakingly interprets all that he finds. For example on the "sacred collar" he finds the ceremonial head band with the chant, "Sanitized for your protection". A drawing depicts his colleague, Harriet wearing the collar and headband. The students love this book. The pictures are a riot. We then also look at Macaulay's book or video, "PYRAMID". In the video, he talks about doing a best guess based on his research as to where he should place the pyramid's temple. I then show the kids a 1990 newspaper article showing that they did finally find the great pyramid's temple under a cess pit. It was found exactly where Macaulay thought it would be. His best research-based guess was correct! After reading Motel of Mysteries, my kids KNOW that not all research necessarily results in accurate conclusions. We talk about some known things that turned out to be wrong. ("Tomatoes are poisonous", etc.) Before we do Internet research we always talk about at least some of the clues to validity of sites. ****************************************************************************** Tracey Donaldson, LMS Tioga Hills Elementary Apalachin, NY bookluv@aol.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-= All postings to LM_NET are protected under copyright law. 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