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This question, Karen, absolutely nails the biggest problem in citation today--looking past the online/offline thing and identifying the true FORMAT of information sources. It's trickier than ever. And I don't think you can automate past the need for that core skill, no matter how good your "citation maker" software is--at some point thinking has to happen. That's why, for one thing, I like databases that tab their results by source type. And more should perhaps add to that with color coded icons and such reminding students about the source format somewhere prominently with each individual document. Most provide "how to cite" samples with, typically, about three citation formats represented in finished form. But that doesn't teach squat in terms of recognizing types of sources; instead it jumps right past that skill-set. The only way I have found to actually teach kids to make format distinctions is to take the time to show each information format in all its typical print and online guises, highlight the strengths and weaknesses of each format, and provide tips for kids so they can ID each species when they encounter it in the information wild. Then you hang out with kids when they're actually doing research so you can help them cite as they go. How do you get kids past the stage in which the see all information as either a book or a website? I work with tweens so, when I'm doing bibliography "shows," I often pick a high-profile, class clown type "victim" from a class and make up a little illustrative story. It gets kids laughing and seems to get them thinking, too. It goes something like this: (In slightly hushed voice) Chad, you don't mind if I tell everybody about what happened last Thanksgiving, do you? CHAD: (Looks puzzled, is genuinely speechless, eventually relents) I don't know if you guys already know this or not, but Chad and I are pretty tight. It's true, I've known him his whole life, in fact, Chad sometimes calls me 'Uncle J.' Why, I can remember Chad when he was just a toddler waddling around in poopy diapers. He was adorable back then. No, I'm not kidding, he really was. Anyway, since I'm a close friend of the family, it isn't uncommon for me to be over Chad's place on special occasions; like last Thanksgiving for instance. Now, maybe I'm just reluctant to come to terms with the idea that my little Chaddy is no longer a baby, 'cause I've got to tell you that I'm just not all that comfortable with some of the...changes...I see in him as he becomes a young man. Like, we're sitting around on thanksgiving, watching a boring football game, when suddenly I hear this electronic song start playing and watch Chad pull a cell phone out of his pocket. First of all, I didn't even know Chad had his own phone, but it was what he did next that really shocked me: Chad began quietly talking to someone as he got up from the couch and slowly walked away. He was almost whispering, but I couldn't help but overhear bits of his conversation. He was saying things like "...hey baby, look I've got people over...sure, I miss you too, sugar, but...look, I'll hit you back tonight..." [class laughs] No that's not even the worst part. Then it got downright gross: he starts making all these kissy noises "smootch smootch, luv ya babe..." [Class laughs, I feign wide-eyed disbelief] And then he hangs up and returns to the couch and--ignoring my suprise totally--he pretends to continue watching the game! I could NOT believe it. Chad, keeping secrets from Uncle J!? I stared at him questioningly, but he wouldn't even look at me. Finally I asked him, straight-up: "Umm..Chad? What were you DOING just now?" And he looked straight in my eyes and said "I was talking...ON THE PHONE." [Class laughs, some know where this is going] Tell me: Is THAT a satisfactory answer? CLASS: NO! Is that what I want to know? CLASS: NO!! What DID I want to know; what's the only important thing? CLASS: Who he was talking TO !!! Exactly. Of course he's talking on the phone, that's obvious! But the phone is just a channel, a PIPE conversations come through...its what's on each end that counts. Its the same way with the sources you use for research. Sometimes I'll ask a student, "what kind of information source is that?" and they'll say. "I got it online or I got it on the web." But that's not a satisfactory answer either. Why? Because the web is Chad's phone. It's a PIPE, not a source. And if I want to know the source, I have to learn to look past the pipe. ------- And so it goes. Tweens always have a lot of fun with this scenario and it really is an AHA moment for quite a few of them. I then ask stupid questions like 'do you think it would be possible to access, I dunno, MUSIC on the web? Really? How about Video? Wow, well those are different kinds of sources...what about a periodical article, something from a newspaper or magazine? Reference sources, you think some of them are online somewhere?...etc., etc. And pretty soon, you have them past the print/electronic oversimplification and have them focused on looking at the source details that matter. No matter what tools you choose to employ, I think it still takes lots of time, effort, follow-up and patience to teach citation. ESPECIALLY if you want to teach the CLASSROOM TEACHERS how to do it, too. ;> Jeffrey Hastings School Librarian Highlander Way Middle School Reply to shankhead at gmail.com -----Original Message----- From: School Library Media & Network Communications [mailto:LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU] On Behalf Of Ulric, Karen Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:13 AM To: LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Subject: [LM_NET] Target: Biblography lesson - identifying source type[Spam score: 8%] Does anyone have a worksheet, lesson plan or powerpoint that would help students identify the original source type when using online resources. We subscribe to NoodleBib and it is very useful in talking our students through the process of creating a citation, but they still have to start by choosing the correct format of the original source, i.e. reference book, academic journal, etc. They often have a hard time figuring out what their original source type is, and that sets them on the wrong path for the entire citation. My students can't be the only ones facing this, so I'm hoping some of you have figured out a way to help them and would be willing to share! Karen Ulric Library Media Specialist Bernard J. Meislin Memorial Library Solomon Schechter Day School of Essex & Union, Upper School 1418 Pleasant Valley Way West Orange, NJ 07052 973-602-3653 973-669-0034 (fax) kulric@ssdseu.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note: All LM_NET postings are protected by copyright law. You can prevent most e-mail filters from deleting LM_NET postings by adding LM_NET@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU to your e-mail address book. 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